What’s up with a simple passive cash flow nation out there? And today’s podcast we’re gonna be talking about religious MES shares, which is these alternative health insurance. Items. A lot of you guys say you’re on the verge of quitting your day job, and the biggest thing is what do you do for medical insurance?
Most people out there are misled to believe that, you better keep having a day job so that you pay for your medical insurance. But something I’ve been going through lately is looking at. How much do these things cost? It can range from a thousand dollars to a few thousand dollars a month.
Seems like a lot of money for most people. If you’ve a million dollars net worth and you’re making 10% off that, that’s a hundred grand. And that’s a fraction of it right there. And, many of you guys listing as it mostly a credit investor base have probably two or three times that much, especially if you count the debt equity in your house or your IRAs not doing anything.
You gotta get it on the table, you gotta get working and, get it working in things that are backed by real estate and cash flow. So also other announcements before we get going here. We are getting into the holiday season, which means we are going into Myself and my team are gonna go into planning for the annual retreat in Hawaii.
That’s gonna be January 13th, the 16th. It’s the Huey five. So it’s like kind of the fifth big event we put on. Great event for you guys. If you guys haven’t interacted with our group to at least come out once and see where we’re all about, personally, I, my eyes were wide open and well back in 2015 when I started to meet other investors.
Up until that point, buying rental properties from 2009 to 2015, I thought I was crazy for buying properties, not for appreciation. Places like Seattle, California, Hawaii. And investing in these lesser known secondary markets, like how we do today with the apartments. If you guys are interested in that, make sure you guys sign up for the firstname.lastname@example.org slash club as everybody has pre-vetted, right?
We wanna know everybody who comes as unlike a lot of, these other conferences you see out there where it’s a, it’s a fake it to make it group. Wanna be general partners. Our group is really the only one out there dedicated to purely passive accredit investors or LPs. We wanna know who is out there for obvious reasons there.
And we also wanna filter for the right people who are fun and who are gonna make a great experience. And, for people coming out to Hawaii to meet We’ve gotten great feedback from the past year. So anyway, if you guys have been to the password sheets with us shoot us an email team at simplepassivecash flow.com and be compiling those ideas from past participants and make it even better even if it’s just I wanna go.
On a sunset cruise this time, or I wanna go snorkeling, whatever. Let us know what you guys want to do or any other ideas on, one thing we’re big on is, we put people on small tables after they’ve gone through a couple days of getting to know each other and icebreakers and, getting that comfort built up so that they do feel comfortable opening.
And being authentic with other people. And that’s really where you get the good stuff. And unfortunately you don’t really get this with some of our other events that are like, a few hours or a popup here or there, or we just came back from Huntsville where we unveiled the new 230 unit Chase Creek Apartments, which looks amazing.
It something is real special when you get people to a remote location like Oahu in Hawaii which we’ll be doing in Waikiki by the. And then also when you get adults together for a few days in conjunction, things really open up and, I’ll say it for myself as an adult in my thirties.
Gonna be forties. It’s really hard to meet friends, especially ones that aren’t just living the old pay off your house and work to, you’re 60, 70 years old investing in the 401K nonsense. We’ve got a bunch of folks, a very eclectic group that kind of question the status quo and, doing things very differently.
And the sad thing is a lot of, for a lot of you guys listening, I was there at one point. You’re ashamed to do it this way cuz nobody, everybody thinks you’re crazy out there. But come to Hawaii and jump on board for that. I think I do believe the info page, if it’s not set up already, it may be set up.
Come next month will be simple Passive cash.com/ 2023 retreat is the signup form there for more information. But if that, here we go with the show.
Hey simple passive cashflow listeners. Today, we are going to talk about Ary programs and this is one part of our series that we’re going into healthcare insurance alternatives. After you leave the w two day job, and you’re not grandfathered into one of those legacy health programs after you’re retired from your employer, you guys can find all the show notes to this and the other.
Podcast we have had on the topic, simple passive cash flow.com/healthcare. But today I’ve got Jeff Anoni jeff, why don’t you give a quick background on yourself and then we’ll just roll into the material here. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks first. All thanks for having me on the show enjoyed meeting with you.
Yeah, that was fun. Connecting with you. I. I’m six foot five. So I didn’t really see you there for a while and somebody pointed you out, Hey, he’s down there. And I looked down there and there you were. But anyway that’s my humor for today, but but anyway I’m definitely not an expert on this.
I wouldn’t call myself an expert. I would call myself just somebody that was sick and tired of paying a lot of money every month to, for health insurance for me and my. And I decided do something about it, but a little bit of background about me. I’m a periodontist. I practice in Louisiana and about a year and a half ago, I started the debt free doctor.
It’s actually debt free Dr. Dot com site. And it was geared more towards dentist and physicians and other high income earners. About how to get out of debt, different ways that, that I did it, we were able to do it and then plus some basic investing. And now, I’ve gotten more into the passive investing, real estates, syndications, those sort of things that, that you teach your followers and your listeners and coaching members.
That’s a little background about me. There you go. Yeah. So a lot of, set the problem. A lot of people, they leave their day job and they leave this health insurance behind and something I’ve been looking into is there’s a cost to this and it’s not insurmountable.
And for a lot of people I asked who are in this financial independence path and investing in multimillion dollar deal. they they say, I asked ’em why don’t you leaving your day job? They say cuz of healthcare did you know that, that only costs 500 to a thousand, $2,000 a month potentially, and so that’s how we’re we’re gonna talk about one of those alternatives today, which is meta sharing. And so I guess Jeff, why don’t you define what meta sharing is? And how people use it. About a year and a half ago, we were paying $480 a month for my family. It’s my wife and I and two kids.
And we got a notice from our December. We got a notice from our health insurance that said it was going from $480 a month to $1,600 a month. I said, man, this is outrageous. And cuz at that time I had a $12,000 a yearly premium premium deductible, $12,000 deductible a year.
So I was pretty much not even using my health insurance cause I was having a pay out of pocket $12,000 a year. Luckily we’re a healthy family and we don’t have to use it that much, but I just didn’t. That paying now 1600 a month, like almost $20,000 a year for what you know, for nothing.
So I, I was like, there, there’s gotta be a better way. So I started looking around and I talked to other doctors, talked to, nurses just talked to other people, friends and I kept hearing this thing called healthcare sharing programs, or also called healthcare sharing. I didn’t really know much about it.
I’d heard on the radio a little bit about it started doing a little of, a little bit of research and basically what these organizations are. They’re not health insurance they’re and I guess the easy way to, to describe it. Cause I like to talk and analogies, cuz I’m from Louisiana, I’m just a simple dude.
But if think about you in your, where you live in your neighborhood. your neighbors and if one of ’em gets sick and they’re in the hospital and you look over there and their yard’s two feet high, you would probably maybe pitch in and mow their yard and help ’em out.
And that’s what, how this is structured. So when somebody has a medical need, people pitch in their money and share, and it goes directly to. Whatever medical bills they have that’s a simplistic way of explaining it.
So think of it like in your Colex sec in your neighborhood, but think of it with potentially a thousand, 10,000 people in that sharing program or even more, exactly. Yeah. It’s tens of thousands in, in a lot of these companies and just it’s growing astronomically, just because. How much the health insurance premiums have skyrocketed. And, like my first I was try and sharp shoot these things and I think what if to use your analogy in Louisiana, your next door neighbor happens to be a 400 pound guy who happens to deep fry, crawfish oil in powdered sugar and Oreo cookies and sprinkles and drink coffee.
How do you know my neighbor? My neighbor. Yeah. I don’t wanna be in his medical sharing program. No offense, but you would think that stuff happens, but it’s the benefit of not having to pay all these outrageous and inflatable health insurance costs. That’s where most of the benefit is coming from me.
Kinda. I really think that their cost are so much lower. because they’re because if you’re with one of these big insurance companies, like blue cross or, one of the other larger ones, I’m just, randomly choosing that and now, or all these other yeah. Even a Kaiser.
Exactly what I mean. Think about I don’t even know, but I’m sure you could look it up online. How many millions of dollars a year they spend on advertising. So a lot of your money that you would spend. Would go to pay for their advertising versus these healthcare sharing programs or ministries.
They don’t have all of that. And I think that’s one of the main reasons why they’re able to really decrease the amount that members have to pay. And not only advertising, but just, you think of corporate waste. How many of my investors are nurses and doctors and most of their times are not.
Helping patients listening, all the BS coding and all the paperwork that’s required. Yeah, exactly. I didn’t know a lot of these positions ex existed and people will say, I always ask what people do and they’re like, oh, I’m a coder for health insurance stuff, oh, that’s a, seems like a really boring job to me. yeah, exactly.
What are the other than like your healthcare company, is Medi sharing options, the only thing you found? I, there are different, there’s different companies out there. Medi-Share and Samaritan. Those are two the larger. These sharing organizations, there, there is, there’s probably, 10 or more, but I think they pretty much all work the same way.
So when you have a, if you have to go to the doctor, you have a, a medical event or whatever they have and I’ll just, and I’m more familiar with Medi-Share because that’s who I’m with. But I think that Medi-Share and Samaritan and then Liberty. Are probably the three largest ones, most popular ones.
And they actually have network providers just like an insurance company. And, with Medi-Share, they’ll actually give you an ID card and it has on there, your group number. And it looks just like an insurance card. So you go to the doctor or you go to the hospital, you get your work done or whatever, and the provider will send their bill.
And in this case to Medi. And then the, and the so basically the provider notifies Medi-Share, and then if everything’s approved, Medi-Share will transfer funds from other people. So every month you have, they have what they called. It’s a sharing account. So with health insurance, you’re paying every month, your monthly premium, in our case with Medi-Share every month you have, it goes into a share account.
So whenever somebody. Needs your money. It’s basically that money is shared with other people. So if if you’re out there surfing in Hawaii and you get knocked off a big wave and you knock your head on the surfboard, you go to the hospital and it’s gonna be $5,000. They basically just pull up $5,000 from other Chere members.
They will, pay your bills directly. What I like about it is, cuz if you’re paying, when I used to pay my money with insurance companies, I would just write a check and that’s it. But what I like about Mesha and these other companies, where your money’s going, it’ll actually say, Hey, your money’s going to help out lane.
It doesn’t say, what your medical problem or anything like that is. They will let them know, Hey, I’m actually, my money’s actually going good. It’s going to help somebody just like taxes. Think about how much taxes we pay. It’s just a was of the government. I would love to know where, my tax money is going to help, this a certain person that’s in need, but unfortunately it’s not like that.
Some of these really small medical sharing groups they’ll. Have you send them the money directly and you’re also supposed to give them like words of encouragement, right? You’re not one of those really small ones. Are you the, I know Samaritan is the other one is another main one. They actually will.
Your money. They’ll actually tell you where to send your money. They do it, it’s very seamless. It’s not oh, is my money gonna get there? Whatever, it’s but that was one of the reasons I like Medi-Share because I’m sending. My money every month versus Samaritan and maybe some of the other ones that you have to send to somebody else.
Yeah. But they have something called an AHP or an annual household portion. And what that is that’s like your annual deductible with insurance and there’s with Chere there’s seven, seven different ones. And it ranges anywhere from $500 a. To, I think like 10,000 or 10,500. So again, just like insurance, the higher your annual household portion, or your deductible is the lower your monthly premium or your monthly, share’s gonna be.
So basically, if you pick $10,000 you have to pay out of pocket $10,000 and then Medi-Share will kick in to start paying. And very similar to an insurance program. It goes through some factors, such as age, a number of people, et cetera, et cetera. So it’s fair amongst different participants.
Yeah. And another thing that I didn’t realize until I’d been doing it for a month, so we were paying $480 a month. It got jacked up to $1,600 a month. And then once I got Medi-Share, it went down from 1600 a month to I think, $330 a month. So it was actually less than I was previously paying. So I’d been paying for a year.
And then I started I’d gotten an email about, have you considered doing a changing from your standard monthly share to what they call a healthy, monthly share? And I said I don’t know anything about that. What is that? So basically what it is, it’s an option for people that are. Have a healthy lifestyle.
They’ll actually, if you meet the qualifications, they’ll actually have you, do, your blood pressure, your waste, me measurement, your BMI, your body mass index. So if you and I did this for both my, myself and my spouse, you do it. You verify it. It’ll actually lower your rate even more.
So now it’s, I think ours is $271 a month. for a family of four. Wow. So think about your savings. What it could be. Especially people that are retiring early, they’re financially independent, it’s a huge savings. So I’m looking at the website here and I’ll put a screenshot into the civil pass cash flow.com/healthcare, as you guys can take a look at later, so that kind of helps out the your poor neighbor there who needs to lose some weight.
Probably not gonna qualify for that nice discount then probably not. No. So right now you’re paying a little under 500 where I think most people who don’t have health insurance retire at age 60, hopefully they’re look probably looking at what, 2000 per family sort of the normal per month. Yeah. Yeah. It’s well over a thousand.
I mean it, yeah, it. From most people that I’ve talked to it’s anywhere from 1500 to 2000 or more, and we’re under $300 a month. It’s huge. And it also includes dental. They have a dental it’s included vision is included and then something that I haven’t used, but I know it’s getting more and more popular is the telemedicine.
To where if you don’t wanna leave your house, I think this would be especially good with kids. When you have a kid that’s sick, a lot of times you don’t want to go to the pediatrician and sit in the waiting room and pick up all these other diseases and stuff. If you know that, you’re just gonna get like a antibiotic or something like that.
So they, they have a telemedicine that they do 24 7, where they’ll connect you. With another doctor to see, is that something that they can handle online, with the camera looking at each other, or do you need to actually go in and physically see a physician? But, you’re paying like what a quarter or a third of what most people are paying.
And it’s just absolutely very similar to like people who buy a turnkey rental, they’re probably making about, I’d say 20 or 30% a year. On their investment. Then you look at the people in the stock market at, index fund. They’re making like five to 8% and it’s like, where did all my money go?
People are paying 1000, $2,000 a month on their health insurance yet you’re paying a quarter of that. Yeah, it’s like that, that’s all the money went to advertising and corporate profits and all this paying the salary of this coder who loves their job coding all day. Absolutely.
let’s talk about some of the cons of this a little bit. those three providers, you mentioned, they are all religious affiliated and you take us through some of the the, what are the things that they don’t allow and in kind of their methods, I’m pretty sure they’re.
Fairly similar. If you can actually go to the, Medi-Share is the Christian care ministry or CCM is the company that has Medi-Share and they actually have a, they actually have a statement of faith on the website and yeah you basically have to be a believer. You have to. And like I was telling you before we started our conversation, they’re not gonna come and follow you around and make sure you’re not smoking and drinking.
And, doing all this stuff that, that you’re saying that you’re not doing, but you basically just have to acknowledge that, follow their rules. I’m not gonna use illegal drugs. I’m not gonna abuse alcohol. I’m not gonna, you. Do I think tobacco sex outside of the marriage, that sort of thing.
And you basically just have to sign it. That’s how it is with Meere and it’s, that’s probably how it is with the other ones as well. So that’s really the. The only qualification the main qualification, which I guess for what you’re asking it, it could be a negative for some people disadvantage.
Again, it’s not a, another con I guess that, of these, again, it’s not a health insurance company, so I’m really not sure, but I think there may be just a handful of states. That still don’t accept it. I think most of them do now, but there may be just a few. So you may wanna just check with that.
I think there are certain restrictions regarding preexisting conditions, very similar to health insurance. I think before you had to be in the program before becoming pregnant, but I think that maybe have changed now. I’m not a hundred percent. But whenever I got into it almost two years ago, that was the case.
some of the preexisting conditions, like diabetes and things like that they may just have to have you pay a little bit more, again if you’re healthy, you’re gonna pay less. If you’re not healthy, you’re gonna pay more, very similar to insurance. Yeah. Yeah. Not different than insurance.
I think. Probably the main disadvantage for us. Whenever we switch, we had a health savings account. We had a high deductible insurance policy that was, associated with a health savings account. With these types of organizations, you cannot use a health savings account. But again you’re saving so much money.
What I did was just took the difference and, put it into a fund or something like that, cuz it’s gonna be a huge difference. I don’t even contribute to my health savings account anymore. I’d rather just invest it. That’s a that’s my own choice. Another con to this, is they don’t, they won’t pay for certain procedures that aren’t really aligned with the faith, right?
Like abortion or whatever. Correct. I would check out their website for you guys and we’ve got some of these, the major rules. I’ll cut and paste into the show notes. But yeah, I think, like this is just an option for folks and, Jeff and I are not giving financial advice.
And if you get a health sharing program, They they don’t pay for something don’t come and Sue us. Jeff. , it’s just exactly, I’m just telling, I’m just sharing my experience with them. I’m a customer for them. I don’t work for them. Another simple way of saying this, cuz everybody is familiar with this.
This is nothing more than crowd funding for healthcare. Think of it like that. But oftentimes the things that if you find yourself on the side of majority, it’s time to pause and switch directions. Yeah, absolutely. and have you heard of any issues with them not paying for certain procedures or just any difficulty them fighting any claims or in your experience?
From my personal experience we’ve used it. We’ve had a couple of issues, I have two boys, so they’re always having issues with sports and with going to the orthopedic doctor. So we’ve had some, x-rays and actually, I just had an issue with my knee.
So I did an MRI. We had a little procedure for my son and. They pretty much covered, everything that they said that they were gonna cover. It was very easy, very seamless. I actually did some research before I joined and got online and there may have been like just maybe one or two instances where, something didn’t get paid or whatever, but 98% of the reviews that I had read, they were all.
But again, like you said, not, I’m not saying if you apply to one of these something could, happen like that, where they may not pay, again, I don’t work for the company, but from my personal experience from talking to other people that also had it plus looking online, it was all very positive.
And it’s not like health insurance haven’t snaked their way out of claims themselves. So E either way you. I deal with dental insurance every day. Being a periodontist. When I say deal with it, my staff deals with them. And I actually, I’m not gonna name any names, but I personally know people that are dentists, but on the side they work for these dental insurance companies.
And I’m sure it’s probably the same way in health insurance, because for dental insurance, you have to submit your x-rays. You have to submit notes and all that, which again is similar to health insurance. You have to have a healthcare provider, look at everything and go, okay this person is saying that this patient needs X, this procedure, I’m go, am I gonna prove it?
Or am I not gonna approve it? And these people that are dentists that actually work for the companies they tell them to stall. That’s their stall tactic. They want to delay it. They want to drag it out. They want to keep saying, oh, I need more information. I need more, this, I need that.
So they, they want to keep your money as long as possible. So it’s growing, they don’t wanna pay right away and that kind of stuff doesn’t happen with these organizations. That’s from my experience of dealing with these, cuz we call ’em daily for patients and it’s always, Hey, we need more documentation.
We need more charting. We need more this or that. And it’s just a stall tactic. The person that gets hurt the most is the patient because they’re frustrated, they’re paying all this money and they’re saying I’m paying all this money every year and they’re not even paying for anything. Unfortunately the patient’s the one that gets the worst, the shortest end of the stick, so to speak.
So I’ve actually talked to another guy probably gonna have him on another podcast in the future, so we can dig into this subject more, but, see he said the procedure on these medical sharing programs is you figure out what you guys need and then you submit it to the company.
and then there’s a little bit of procedure making sure that, Hey, are you going and getting the best pricing, is this what you really need to solve the problem? And then at that point, they try and expedite this as much as possible. So that the most important thing is you getting the treatment and getting it knocked out, but you’re essentially a cash pay person.
That’s what he’s kinda said. Yeah. That’s our experience from visiting with the orthopedics, they Metha contacts us very quickly. They want to expedite it. Like you said, they want to get it paid and it’s, it’s more beneficial. They’re just trying to basic, it makes it more beneficial to me, the patient.
Versus, delaying pain. Yeah. And this even works for you say your son goes to the dentist for a cleaning for his teeth, something as small as that is that what’s the procedure there. The same thing, the dental you you could be a provider just like health insurance, so same thing, the.
Is going to get their money when they’re supposed to, but more importantly, the patient that gets their teeth cleaned, they’re gonna get that paid for quicker instead of, having to wait and wait on the explanation of benefits, caught an EOB form that they send out and it’s just delayed and delayed.
So the procedure is your son gets a cleaning. The bill, the invoice gets sent to the Mesha company. Okay. And then that billing gets taken care of there. And then your share that you need to pay if any gets sent to you no different than how the insurance company works today. Correct. Okay. All right.
But anything else you think we need to cover on this subject? Jeff? I have two articles. One of ’em is about Medi-Share and then one of them, because people started emailing me after I put that article out I did the I also broke down the differences between Medi-Share and Samaritan, which at the time, when I wrote the article, again, those were the two biggest healthcare sharing.
Groups out there. So I broke each one of them down and had the differences between the two and again, the advantages and disadvantages of the two. I would encourage people to do your due diligence, take a look at ’em. If they want to contact me more than happy to contact me.
And again, I’m just would tell them exactly what I’ve been telling you just from my personal experience. and be more than happy to help them if they have any further questions about it. But it’s just been a great thing to free up so much annual extra money every year, I’m still working.
It still is a big deal, but I’m still working, a lot, like you said, a lot of your listeners that aren’t actively working anymore and living off the passive income, this could be a huge financial. Boost to them every year. Or more importantly, just that one last excuse why you shouldn’t be working at your day job when you got all this cash flow to replace your W2 income.
So thanks for joining us, Jeff, I’ll link up in our show notes here simplepasscashflow.com/healthcare. I’ve also got medical or Medicare information, the podcast we did there. We’ll get one of the providers here on the podcast too, in the future. But go ahead and share this with your guys, folks.
If anybody who is nearing retirement, doesn’t have health insurance. There’s definitely a option that I’m going to go down myself personally. Talk to you guys later. Thanks for joining us. Thank you.