On today’s show, we’re going to be helping the socially awkward folks like myself, who are self-proclaimed introverts, try and be a little bit smoother and a little bit more effective in terms of networking. And just getting along with people at work. I am bringing on an it guy turned of social coach on today’s podcast to give us some pointers and some things to be aware of.
So if you guys, Hear me talking about a lot of being an accredited investor and finding deal flow is mostly about networking and getting to know other passive investors so that you can become a better past investor yourself. But to do that, you have to make relationships organic, real relationships with other high net worth of credit investors.
A lot of this, again, like I say, all the time, it’s not going to be at their local REIA or at the free, internet, Facebook groups or other forums out there because those groups are typically filled with, guys who are trying to make their first hundred, $200,000 network. but how do you, when you finally get in the right room, like maybe we do a simple passive cashflow outing.
Maybe I come to San Francisco or Seattle. When you finally get in a group with our tribe, how do you make the most of it? So we’re going to be a lot of the soft skills are going to talk about the survey and I hope you guys enjoy.
All right. Hey, simple passive cashflow listeners. Today. We are going to be talking to Brady Helton, who is a X I T professional, but he is focusing on teaching other it professionals and other smart guys, the soft skills, like clear communication, responsiveness empathy. And we’re going to be doing a deep dive with this.
So this is going to be a good one. For those of you guys who have day jobs, which is most of you. A lot of folks in the simple passive cash on nation are high-paid professionals. You guys realize that your time is better spent at your day job going after that next promotion. It ain’t going to be forever.
most of you guys I noticed can get financially free in five to 10 years, but it’s definitely a time better spent there than screwing around with some Burr property or, your fourth or fifth turn key rental that’s for sure. But, Brady, thanks for jumping on it. Of course. Yeah. So a lot of our groups, a lot of engineers in our investor club for some strange reason, maybe because I am, but, I guess w why don’t you take us through, what is like the biggest mistakes that you see other it professionals, or let’s just put in general, like smart people, right?
Dentists doctors, they need to have bedside manner. W what are the biggest mistakes that you see just as start us off and we can maybe isolate a few of these or within this next podcast? Yeah, I would say the biggest thing that tends to be the root problem here is when you get really good in any particular field, you start to learn the jargon and use the jargon, but you don’t necessarily keep a sense.
Of what the other person in a conversation knows and doesn’t know, and too often, particularly for, engineers and other, process oriented individuals, we tend to think in terms of the tasks that we have to do, we tend to think a little bit more in acronyms and other terminology and it’s comfortable for us.
And we don’t. Go through the effort to make ourselves uncomfortable enough to translate our jargon into something the other person can understand. And when we don’t do that, it tends to break rapport and make for rather stilted conversation, short conversations, not a lot of popularity within the workplace, et cetera.
Yeah. it just goes to show that you, the person you’re talking to on the other end, they are not an expert as you may be. And it comes across as number one, you don’t have empathy over the other person, their shoes. And number two, you could just be like you breaking, It’s the idea of almost like a lack of sensitivity. you could make an argument, in fact, that it is almost inconsiderate to spout jargon at another person who you didn’t check to see whether or not they would even understand the jargon. You’ve made an assumption about it. And then you launch in and you get a lot of hurt feelings that way you get a lot of ruffled feathers.
You get a lot of conflict in a workplace where you might come across as condescending or as an asshole or whatever. There’s any number of extra elements that come into play because. All the person on the receiving end has to go on is the words that you’re saying and the tone you’re using, and if you’re really short and succinct about it and almost impatient about it, because it seems obvious to you and you’re making all of these assumptions.
You can have a completely different reaction from them than what you would be expecting.
It’s just, what is the acronym? Picnic problem? Not you good Peter found in seed or something? Yeah, probably. Yeah, probably between a monitor and chair or something like that. Yeah. But yeah. what are things that have people to be on the lookout that they do? Cause there’s a lot of smart people that listen to this podcast.
And sometimes it can Def, a lot of introverts too, but I think sometimes the smarter you get the less self-aware you are at least some incense. Yeah. And I think about it as a lot of people will make the assumption that the go to the effort of translating for somebody else is something that somebody who’s more extroverted would go through.
the reason why, one of the reasons why I suspect the proportion of individuals that have trouble with clear communication with avoiding jargon tends to come from like engineers and it people and other really technical industries, or because there’s probably a somewhat higher proportion of introverts there than extroverts.
And a common misconception is that you’ve got to be extroverted in order to get along with other people and establish rapport. But interestingly, somebody who is an introvert actually has a lot more empathy for somebody else. They just don’t necessarily know how to tap into it. So the effort that you go through to translate for somebody else is actually easier on an introvert than for an extrovert in a way, because you can internalize the emotion of what the other person’s feeling.
You just don’t know how to do that. They’re just not an introvert. Just. Also just tends to be listing or not talking all the time. And then when you want to say something, oftentimes again, in technical fields, you want to be precise about what you’re saying, but there’s so much effort on being precise that you don’t necessarily keep in mind what they’re going to understand or not understand about your precision.
Oftentimes translating it in a way that loses a tiny bit of the meaning, but becomes much easier to understand is a lot better than giving the precise terminology or acronym to what is happening or what this thing is. And it goes over somebody’s head instead. So it’s the main thing that stops introverts, I think is the initial effort.
It takes to think not only about the other person, but then to go out of your way. To accommodate them because that in a way is what you’re doing. You’re accommodating somebody else explicitly to translate something that you take for granted into words or ideas that the other person will understand easily.
It’s well received when you do this, but it takes a lot of effort. There’s a hump to get past. And sometimes it’s just an ego thing. A good example of this is, I guess in art, our industry, we make a lot of fun about doctors because doctors in our realm are horrible investors. They’re really smart people, but they’re absolutely the worst investors.
They invest in some of the worst stuff. And. It’s funny when I get a doctor that is clued in on this true that you see some doctors who are very intelligent people and I’m just, I don’t really want to isolate the doctors completely. It’s, it’s every smart profession, You get a smart person and they come into a realm such as investing and they’re complete knew about it.
Newbie. And yet they believe that they can learn it like that, or they already know have a pretty good understanding. But part of it is Eagle and being able to start at the infancy stage, realize that you don’t know what you don’t know, just stage one, and then realize that there a whole bunch of other stuff you need to learn to even start to build an understanding.
it’d be talk to us. I’m sure you run a lot of bootcamps with folks. What can you say about people with that type of products that one’s a little bit harder to work around, right? It is more fundamental. I wouldn’t necessarily say that it’s harder because it sounds deceptively simple to avoid jargon, but in practice it’s so much harder because there is the value system that somebody holds internally that really ultimately dictates whether or not they go through the effort to avoid Charcot.
So it is deceptively simple, but quite difficult. To actually change in practice because they have to change themselves their values. And when we talk about something like ego, it’s much the same idea. There’s a fundamental way that we view ourselves that you can’t be on autopilot with you. Can’t just let that be and carry on with the day-to-day stuff and expect that not to influence everything you do.
And all of your results in your life. It all comes down to your value system, your viewpoint, and how willing you are to change that. And I cover a topic that I consider a difference. I did not create these concepts. These actually came from a book Carol Dweck mindset, that I would recommend would be good reading for people, but there’s this concept of growth versus fixed mindset that is.
The technical terminology, which is to basically say, when we talk about smart people, when we talk about educated people, when we talk about people that are really good at this, we are labeling them. We are labeling them though with fixed attributes. If you are not smart, then you must be dumb. So there’s a lot of those backhanded compliments that tend to start coming in, where you go, somebody gets a hundred percent score on a test and you go, congratulations.
You’re so you’re a genius. And then they don’t really feel great about that. They actually feel pressured now and nervous because if they don’t get a hundred on the next test, then what does that say about them? So that’s that idea of the fixed mindset. A growth is about the effort about the journey that we’re taking, about where we are trying to reach with our effort and our energy and our focus.
And that’s what I helped to craft. And it correlates with ego because. I put that on a spectrum between solution focused and ego focused as two ends of a spectrum. And the bootcamp that you mentioned briefly teaches throughout those six weeks of recurring theme of being solution-focused because you can enjoy praise.
You can enjoy the nice things that come from. No, it feels good to know that I have this PhD. It feels good to know that I hold this kind of salary, this kind of prestige. You can enjoy those pleasures, but don’t let them affect your decisions. The decision should be influenced by a solution approach. What is the solution that I want to do if you’re unhappy with something in your life right now, if you’re unhappy with something in your career, in the workplace that you want to change.
It is infinitely better to treat that as a problem that has a solution than to react from your ego, to react from your emotions, to react from how other people should treat you, because you have accomplished X, Y, Z. So you talked a lot about like handling rejection and confrontation. And that kind of reminds me about when you go into a confrontation or some kind of conflict that again, Like he mentioned, it’s all about the, what is the solution that you want them to be off the cuff?
Maybe you can go more into detail about that. When you focusing on a solution with a conflict, it tends to dampen down your emotional reactions from a place of ego. So if you’re giving, we can call it investment advice. If you’re giving investment advice to somebody and they’re not listening to you.
They’re not taking your advice. you’d alluded to, like doctors might be, proportionally higher, at being terrible investors kind of thing. And if there’s ego involved and they’re rejecting your advice and they don’t want to do the investments that are a good recommendation or coming up in group conversations, because they think this is going to work better, you’re in a conflict.
And as an expert in investment, or if we talked about the engineer, Or if we even talk about the doctor, imagine a doctor with a patient and the patient is going, yeah, I know I need to exercise or haha. And they’re brushing off the doctor’s advice. There’s that prick to our pride as an expert, that’s somebody is not taking our advice, but if we’ve maintained our focus on the solution, we will react and respond differently to that person in the room differently than if we reacted out of her pride, wounded pride.
Offense, et cetera. So that’s where that kind of ties in the main thing that we want to focus on from the solution is mastery over our own emotion, not letting our emotions rule us.
Yeah. I think the example that I see, I personally go through is I tell people, and if you do the math, Investing via a retirement fund, doesn’t make too much sense because you gotta wait till you’re seven years old to get the money you’re going to you’re in a lower tax bracket today, tax brackets are go down in the future.
And when you invest via retirement funds, you don’t get any of the passive losses to potentially offset your W2 income. when people, I guess they go the other way, I could probably be like, whatever, man, you’re the expert. You can do it. Do it. Do whatever you want.
That’s the prick, right? That you’re mentioning. So maybe walk me through it, how I should work through that solution or get to the solution because I guess the solution I want them to do, what’s what makes sense. I guess I think the, what this boils down to is that there’s a different concept that I can intermingle in here.
And that’s the idea of separating the two kinds of power, because when we think of power, we just think of one kind of power. Which is social power influence over another person. And if you look at your goal or your objective as trying to get somebody else to do something, then you’re already setting yourself up potentially for failure, because all you can do is influence them.
You can’t control them. But the thing that you can control is personal power. And that is your reactions to something that is your decisions on how you’re going to respond. How are you going to move forward? So you feel that prick of wounded pride, you exert personal power by choosing to adopt a solution approach rather than reacting from her pride.
That’s the first thing you can control your reaction. You can’t control what they decide to do though. So now we’re talking about social influence. What I would actually say to you in this situation and what I usually would say to somebody else in a similar situation of what do I do? I want them to do this reevaluate your true goal, your true objective, because your true goal and objective should be something you have control over.
Not something you can only influence your goal should be something you can actually reach and guarantee that you can reach. That’s where confidence comes from. That’s where that. Certainty in your path and what you’re going to do comes from, so your goal could be to exhaust all options. You can take to influence this person to take sound advice, and take a sound approach.
That could be the objective, because if they listen to you at some point, and then they follow your advice, that’s fantastic. That’s a great outcome, but you still win. Even if they don’t. Because you’ve taken all logical steps to try and coach them the right way to follow the right advice and the right steps.
So you will still win because you could control that. You can control all of the suggestions and pathways that you could eliminate for them. It’s up to them to use their personal power, to decide, to take your advice or not. So whether it’s. A doctor teaching about diet and exercise, getting them to make that path.
having somebody get their retirement funds out of the clutches of the government, it’s not about the other person. It’s about me, exhausting, all my options to get there. And if not be okay with it, is that kind of the answer? Yeah. Because if you think about it through to a logical conclusion, you can end up with doctors that become suicidal.
If you really think about it in a life and death struggle kind of situation, you’ve got somebody having diagnosed with cancer and they have to take certain medications or go through certain treatments, and then you have the patient refuse to take those treatments. And the doctor in that room is going to go, you are most likely going to die then.
And if you keep your focus on saving that life would, you can only influence you can’t control that you get somebody that now has a lot of baggage to take around and try and process. But if their goal actually is to make sure that they educate as much as they can to say, Hey, look, these are your risks though.
you’re an adult. You have to decide for yourself what you’re going to do, but I need you to know at least. What’s at stake. And if they keep their focus on that, they can control that they don’t have unresolved baggage to fight through. They knew they did everything they could to try and save this person.
Now it’s a life or death struggle situation that really exemplifies the emotion that we go through. But it really also illustrates the grounding we should pursue because you can’t borrow other people’s troubles. And here’s another example that comes up a lot. actually have a big article that I update from time to time about the reluctant spouse syndrome, where an investor has a spouse that is a partner in life that isn’t quite on board with getting off the beaten path of traditional investing and not buying a house to live in.
you guys can check this firstname.lastname@example.org slash spouse. But so let’s walk through this. somebody wants to go into an investment or maybe not buy a house to live in, Maybe rent for awhile and it clashes with the other person. And. To me, the worst case scenario is when I throw my hands up in the air.
And I say, sorry, man, that’s your problem? It’s the other, the spouses is on, is disinterested in a way, but holding to their truth, how would you navigate that specific scenario? In that case, I would say, hold to your truth. There’s a fine line. And here’s where a lot of people who are technical, but not necessarily empathetic or externally empathetic, I should say visibly empathetic will struggle because it is a fine line.
You can have the same content, but the message and the wording and the tone changes everything. We’re talking about establishing rapport. We’re talking about already. if the timing isn’t right, or if there’s a personal conflict, that’s preventing this person from moving forward with something you think is a good idea.
We’ve already covered what that looks like. It’s not a good fit. If you can’t prioritize this, then it’s. It’s not going to work out. You’re going to make a different decision. All I can do is give you an educated sense of what your options are. And if you don’t pick that up and run with it, I can only give you your options.
I can only educate you. I can’t force you to do something against your wishes, right? You can’t control them, but there’s a distinction between throwing up your hands and going, whatever, I can’t tell you what to do. There’s a dismissal to it. There is a reaction to the emotion that is coming into the tone and to the wording, because your emotions at that exact moment have the better of you rather than the other way around.
There’s no solution there because the solution is whether or not you’ve exhausted all options. And if you throw your hands up in the air before you’ve exhausted all options, then you have failed something that you actually have direct control over. You can exhaust those options. And what that ends up looking is just illuminating to them.
What would be a process that they can, should you change your mind or here’s an article you should read, or here’s a podcast episode you should listen to that really talks about this kind of concept and this kind of concern that you’re running into right now. And how do you reconcile it?
Like you can provide them options for them to come back later. It takes little effort on your part, but it’s a solution approach. It’s something that you can offer them that whether they take it or not, doesn’t matter, but the delivery is establishing that rapport. The delivery is making that ally on the other side of the communication, rather than using a rejection from emotion.
If you have mastery over your emotions, you can address that situation. A myriad number of ways. That gives them a good feeling at the end of the day. Even if it doesn’t financially work out for them to want to do the investment advice for them to purchase this, to do that, whatever. And this is true for doctors with advice.
It’s true for engineers with, unreasonable deadlines and I’ve managed her breathing down their neck. Like no matter what conflict you’re looking at, you can react emotionally, or you can feel the emotion. Recognize it for what it is, ask yourself, but what am I going to do about it? Because reacting just from the emotion you go, I can’t do anything about it.
And you just throw your hands up in the air, but you ask yourself after you recognize the emotion, what can I do about this? And you’ll have a couple of things usually that spring to mind and you can still do, and you can close the book too. You’re going to be like, Hey, if it doesn’t feel like it’s a good fit, I can’t change your mind on that.
Here’s some resources for you to check out. Or find me if continuing down this road is going to ruin the relationship even further. Maybe that’s a smart choice, that circumstance. and to that point, if you’re giving investment advice, you’re not a family therapist, You’re not a relationship therapist, a marriage counselor, or anything like that.
So also recognizing where our strengths are and where they’re not. I will say this is a common story is something like innate, like infinite banking using whole life insurance to bang from yourself. It’s a little complicated topic and some spouses would dig their feet in and say no.
And the, the kind of the more financially minded spouses. No sit I’m frustrated and I’m trying to China teach them about this. They want to listen. They don’t want to watch the damn webinar to learn about it. And they say no, and then they just let it cool down for a few days. And they said, yeah, they said just do it sometimes.
Sometimes that can be the path forward, but this is just me being an observer for other people to see how it works. and when we see situations like this, that we want to influence, there is a strategy we can still employ. If you see that as a recurring theme, And you can recognize you don’t have the control to change them or change their situation, but you do have networking partners, referral partners, individuals that specialize in, maybe.
persuasion and conversational therapy or whatever, right? Some kind of sense of you’re having a financial conflict. How do you resolve these kinds of financial conflicts with your spouse? Because if you’ve got somebody that really wants to do it, and then the spouse is in the way, then that person that really wants to do it is not going to go against their spouse, but they would love to figure out a way that they can communicate differently with their spouse to maybe persuade them.
That is certainly something they would be interested in that isn’t necessarily your strengths, but there are people that do that. And that’s where the, the idea of an understanding of what you can and cannot work. What’s your expertise in ledger and what isn’t, your expertise plays a crucial role.
And by offering, even if the connection doesn’t work out, just the offer of connecting them with that kind of resource to help them find a solution for themselves. When’s you that kind of rapport? I think the goal is the rapport, right? in going back into the example of an it solution where it’s very binary, you as the expert, know what the problem is, and it can be very frustrating, especially in that case.
switching gears here a little bit, I’m big on, building networks of other high net worth investors, getting in the room of the right people, which is usually not the vocal Rhea, the free, groups online. We’re just more about wholesaling and flipping in getting their first hundred, $500,000 net worth.
But. And that’s a big part of it. I think, getting into the right network. And that’s why I’ve created the simple passive cashflow nation and the mastermind. But I guess Brady, once you are in the right room, I will some tips on someone who is a little socially awkward from a technical background to get all their comfort zone and intermingle and put their best face forward, My main advice is to play to your strengths, which might sound a little confusing perhaps to somebody who is very heavily introverted. But I had mentioned this earlier in the episode where we were talking about introverts, having particular empathy that even extroverts do not possess. Because an extrovert can be a social butterfly and foot around the room and chitchat with everybody.
And they look like the life of the party and somebody who’s heavily introverted, not only will feel envious, looking at that example, but feel lacking. Like they can’t do that. And that is doing an apples and oranges comparison. You look at somebody that’s social butterflying around the room and you go, I can’t do that.
And you start to shut yourself down and you don’t go up and talk to anybody. That is what we end up seeing in those kinds of situations, but that’s not your strength. Their strength is as an introvert, for example, is not your ability to flip between 20 different conversations. In 10 minutes, your strength is really deeply understanding one conversation, being able to really tap into another person.
And that is something the extrovert can’t pull off. The extrovert usually gets bored too easily and flips to the next conversation. You have a much. Stronger opportunity for connection rapport and building a strong ally in that room than even the extrovert can do. The extrovert could collect 15, 20 different business cards and not necessarily have any real follow through with any of them, but the introvert could get one card, maybe two, that actually goes somewhere because there was a deeper, meaningful connection that was happening.
It takes a courage to do that. You have to get up the nerve to come up and talk to somebody, but. Devote yourself to that realize that your strength is to be able to understand this other person and make an ally. And I think in our group, I would say 80% of the people are introverts. If let’s say at least you got a pretty good shot of talking to somebody who is glad that if you’re talking to them, you think the first move and then something else that of came to mind was in a.
I, when I go to, conferences, industry events, and I make a point to go more deep into one or a few people than to run around the room and wastes my business cards. and it’s funny cause everybody sees those people’s fluttering around the room and you also see this in the virtual setting today, or when there’s not as many in-person events.
I see it. I see it on my Facebook feed. I know you guys are out there. You guys are in every single Facebook group out there. I know cause I am too. And Facebook alerts me and I see those type of people that would skin that’s the cheap, easy, free folks who they flutter around to every single group. Ask the question.
You’re asked a question to ask a question in there. there are transitory to all these groups, but they’re not a resident of any one or two, and I think it’s different. I know the truth is those people. They never really get anywhere. Let’s say never reinvest their money into one group of people, time and money wise.
that’s, I think that’s how it recreates itself in the virtual world that we also unfortunately are living into. and there’s also a corollary, it’s a little bit of a cliche, but it’s an interesting mental trick that I would recommend to somebody, because. Whether it’s in a virtual, zoom call where there’s open breakout rooms and you have to pick a breakout room to go into or something like that.
Or, you get assigned to a breakout room. Or even if we think about an in-person thing and you’ve got 15 people lined up against the wall and nobody’s talking, cause everybody’s nervous. Just remember. And this is true. If you’re the one that has the courage to go up and actually initiate the conversation, you’re scared as all hell of how that’s going to go.
But in that instant that you’re doing the approaching to somebody else in that moment, they’re more afraid of you than you are of them. That’s the cliche. And by having that leap of faith, that courage to actually be the one to go up and initiate, you have now proven that you’re just ever so slightly less afraid of this conversation than the person who didn’t get that courage up to do it.
And as a result, You’re almost guaranteed to actually have a really good conversation because they’re just happy that you started it. Yeah. And I think a great opening pickup line is like, Hey, I’m new here. I’m still trying to learn. yeah. Tell me about yourself. And I’m interested in learning too.
it’s rare that you find people that. Don’t have that ego or the I’m all-knowing, I’m the best doctor on the best dentist and the best it guy. I know.
but yeah, let’s so Brady runs a pretty good boot camp specifically surrounding, progressing your career and all these little social tweaks. great. I really liked the group coaching setting that you do too. We can do this and they can keep beta group ourselves, but it’s probably the most, best way you’re going to be able to get some people around you and that as close to one-on-one coaching, without the price of that, you can get like insult virtual, right?
Say, no, you start it with pentatonic, but you guys, what’s the URL, right? If people want to get ahold of you or. Yeah, my website is infinitech.ninja. So I N F I N I T E C h.ninja. and , the name was created around the idea that we are helping texts, particularly whether we’re talking it or programmers and developers.
If you’re in the tech industry, And that we have infinite potential, but we just need to untap it. So Infinitech, and then I call our graduates from the bootcamp tech ninjas, because there’s a resiliency and a versatility and agility to the mindset that I coach on these concepts that really prepares people to face down just about anything, because really tapping into our personal power and not getting bogged down by what we can’t control.
And I’ve spoken about this before this concept of binary skillsets that are contrasting it’s like the seven foot or in basketball that can also dribble and shoot or the super strong guy. Who’s also fast. If there are an introvert out there and you shut up and actually listen to people, is there a normal tendency, but you’re also able to navigate social norms.
You become what you become one of these rock stars and guns Lakers in the world, and you just rise above everybody else in career and networking. And it’s because it’s rare that binary skill sets is rare. and it’s something that I’ve worked on myself. Cause I was, you ask anybody who knows me.
I’m one of the most socially awkward people in the world. but I kind of work on it. That’s really how I’ve been able to work on all these business development relationships and partnerships and find, and build the group. And, Brady will call me so that I’m confident. yeah, cause I put in the FM work.
And that’s what I encourage. Everybody else should be doing a jumped, do the bootcamp. I would definitely recommend it. And I liked something else that you mentioned in there, like the introvert who can start a conversation and actually communicate effectively with another person does so much more powerfully and meaningfully than the extrovert.
And part of that is because of what you had mentioned about listening. We tend to as introverts, I count myself among them shut up and listen more than we want to talk necessarily. But the extrovert by the opposite end of the spectrum, can’t wait to get in their piece. So they’re not necessarily actively listening.
So you get that game of telephone that happens almost in that social butterfly where they’re not even necessarily understanding what the other person just said because they were brushing up for their next statement. The introvert is actually paying attention and listening to the content and gets closer to the spirit of what was trying to be communicated.
So that’s how you establish those allies. I think it feels better than being listened to, and it makes you want to know this person somewhere. And if you’re doing that for business, you’re more likely to do business together.
All right. again, the URL infinitech.ninja and a bird and use these skills when you guys are in our mastermind groups and. we’re going to be doing the retreat this year. Virtually it’ll be the bubble, the virtual bubble this year, but, yeah. easily skills, bring your ego down, be open, be the first person to show weakness and you don’t know anything.
It’s what I’d say, but, thanks, Brady. Really appreciate that.