Investing in Fine Wine🍷


Unknown Speaker 0:00
Introducing the new remote investor, incubator and ecourse we had the mastermind and we are going to break off from that being mostly an accredited investor group. And I wanted to create something that was helping out the little guy get started guys getting their first properties. And we’re calling this the incubator group. Get More details at simple passive cash flow, comm slash incubator, but basically what we’re doing here is we’re getting a group of professionals looking to build your network with others starting this journey to financial freedom, the ecourse that’s going to accompany this group is going to have eight modules in a closed membership site plus two bonus modules and download kit all geared toward educating the remote investor in this group. We’re going to have biweekly zoom video calls and if you join up, you’re going to get all past turnkey rental recordings. Now these calls are designed to ask whatever questions you have and hear the other questions from other investors in your shoes. And we’re going to run this like a bootcamp style. This is going to be five month program, we’re going to walk you through the best practices for tax and legal as you acquire your first remote rental. We’re even walk you through the due diligence and offer process we’re going to have staff membership coordinators for extra support to get you over the sticking points and to connect you with the right people in the group. Even if you’re shy. One of the biggest reasons for join is access to our ever changing Rolodex of top turnkey companies, brokers, property managers, insurance companies. Hey guys, we’re basically spoon feeding this to you if you’ve been on the fence and it’s time to get your first rental property go to simple passive cash flow calm slash incubator and by the way, for those accredited investors, we are looking for new members go to simple passive cash flow calm slash journey and join the flagship simple passive cash flow mastermind there. After the pandemic to new world out there having a network around you is so much more important. shoot me an email Lane at simple passive cash flow if you’re unsure if the incubator or if the credited mastermind group is for you, but let’s get you connected with other people and don’t go it alone Hey simple passive cash flow listeners. Today we are going to talk about investing in wine now not the securitized crowdfunding way, but the actual owning the actual bottles, the real assets. So today I have Anthony’s on. Thanks for Thanks for joining us, man. Thanks for having me. We’re happy to be on beyond here. So you guys want to Google this at the same time, you guys can Google their company, venal vest, but this is something that I’m personally interested in. I like that kms wine the cab, it’s like 100 bucks.

Unknown Speaker 2:35
That’s a good one a go to you know, it’s a good with a nice barbecue or steak.

Unknown Speaker 2:40
Yeah, but you guys are buying a lot more better ones and your guys system,

Unknown Speaker 2:45
I would say better from an investment potential, you know, tastes objective, but, you know, we’re looking for wines that are going to be bringing, you know, a solid double digit annual return over the next few years.

Unknown Speaker 2:57
Cool. So yeah, let’s get into this. I also have this displayed on the YouTube channel if you guys want to get access to that and I have a big menu of all kinds of things in the world you can invest in I’ll put the section probably at simple passive cash flow calm slash wine, you guys want to check this out in the future and and you can the root folder for this is simple passive cash flow comm slash menu which has all the different things out there that you can invest in now once you kind of take away anthon will kind of go through this deck.

Unknown Speaker 3:27
Yeah. So I’m Anthony, I’m one of the cofounders and CEO Urbino best. And you know, I first learned about investing in wine a few years ago, I sold I sold my first company so I was looking to invest and didn’t want to put it on the stock market. So I had some in real estate and actually stumbled upon a report talking about the historical returns of fine wine which you can see here. You know, 12% annualized returns actually has beaten out the s&p and relatively low volatility too. So that really just piqued my interest. I really dove into this space. And, you know, I had the general concept that wine gets better with age probably more expensive as well. And as I dove into it, I realized that even though it’s getting good returns, it was pretty tough to manage. There’s not too much info out there about which wines to invest in. I didn’t have a massive wine cellar. So handling third party storage, shipping all around the world was pretty cumbersome. And then finally, real liquidity standpoint, there’s a ton of places where you can buy and sell wine today, but how do you know that you’re interacting with someone who’s trusted? How do you know you’re not getting ripped off with a price there’s really no you know, index for wine that is globally recognized. So those are kind of all the problems I saw on the space that I thought could really be improved and that’s why I started this company.

Unknown Speaker 4:46
I bought a four pack of key messes in from eBay that were like some normally that’s what 100 bucks 90 bucks he I bought it for like 70 bucks, but when I got it I it seemed a little fishy to me.

Unknown Speaker 5:01
Tastes wasn’t exactly what I thought it was.

Unknown Speaker 5:03
It was a lot of fake wine out there.

Unknown Speaker 5:06
Yeah, maybe I bought that. But what, you know, as we’re talking earlier, what from your background kind of brought you into this? Because you’re the co founder of this company. What was I mean, everybody’s interested in wine. Right. But what what from your background and kind of gave you the ins to kind of start this?

Unknown Speaker 5:23
Yeah, so I really just grew up with it. I have some extended family in the wine importing industry. I grew up in Beijing. So during the entire craze in the mid mid 2000s, of lot of Chinese people just kind of getting to know about French wine, Bordeaux, burgundy. You know, part of that kind of being a part of a wine importing family. Just really, I think piqued my interest in it. I always thought owning wine was really really cool. And was just was a pretty dormant passion of mine, I’d say until I read that report and kind of just ignited everything again. Cool. Cool. So,

Unknown Speaker 6:00
you know, like you guys are able to get connections from the suppliers that a big kind of leg up as a group from your network.

Unknown Speaker 6:08
Yeah, I think something about, especially like, the high end like top, you know, top couple percent of wine is that it’s very, very hard to get, you know, it’s always in globe, you know, globally, demand is always going to be outstripping the supply. And it’s very hard to get to so access to the big thing, you know, even if you can get it, it’s probably marked up hundred 200%. And you’re not actually getting it for its true value. So, you know, we, with our connections, and, you know, with our team, which has, you know, members who are masters, Somalis, writers, directors at three Michelin starred restaurants, been in the industry, they have great relationships with some of the top wineries in the world, we’re able to get that insider access, that traditionally is not available to the public wanted to kind of look at some of the factors so as I mentioned, with having knowledge to once again Pick out, being able to store the wine properly and make sure that it’s actually aging in the right conditions. And then finding liquidity when you actually want to exit your investment. It’s a big issue. So, you know, we can go on to the next slide, and I can talk about what we do at the end of last.

Unknown Speaker 7:15
So is there was your family kind of, are you like the Asian Gary Vaynerchuk, then or is that similar? What

Unknown Speaker 7:20
was on that level? Yeah, much, much smaller time. But he’s, you know, I was he he really popularized, I think people just becoming more educated about

Unknown Speaker 7:30
wine. So that’s something that’s a question that came up right when I saw this as like, Alright, where’s this wine stored? It’s not like in your house that you get to impress all your buddies.

Unknown Speaker 7:39
Yeah, so we have six storage facilities globally, strategically located in and near to the biggest wine growing region in the world. So we want to know that in California, we got one in the UK, a couple in France, one in Italy, one in Denmark, and we want to make sure that the wind moves the minimal distance as possible. to not disturb it and make sure that we’re able to make sure its condition is as like kind of pristine as possible. So after we buy it for you, we’re able to have a temperature controlled humidity controlled, actually one of our warehouses, the British Royal Family stores, they’re one in the same spot as us. So it’s really just kind of top notch storage facilities. And with the V Nova solution, you don’t need to know anything about wine investing, to get started, the inputs that we take are like, you know, how long are you looking to hold this asset? Or how much are you looking to invest? What’s your risk appetite like, and we’ve developed an algorithm and also portfolio advisors that can then automatically construct a portfolio for you based on those practices, deploy your capital for you, and also actively manage that portfolio of lines on your behalf. And for the, for the end client. It’s a fully digital experience, you know, like you see in that screenshot. It’s a dashboard that you can track your wind price over time. There are updated in real time, and you can see exactly what you own kind of like a, you know, like a robin hood or like a Schwab brokerage account.

Unknown Speaker 9:07
So when they when you buy a bottle you’re not like buying like a half a bottle you got to buy in increments of the bottle than that.

Unknown Speaker 9:14
Yeah, so usually buy it in cases of six or 12 because that’s what the most kind of liquid unit of measurement is, you know, it’s it’s tough to just buy and sell individual bottles because you don’t really know what condition they are but when they’re in the case, they’re kind of packaged the right way. It’s like kind of the industry standard in terms of what people like to buy in and the quantities that they buy it as well.

Unknown Speaker 9:38
So the normally if you’re buying at a case at 12 at 100 bucks per you’re looking at least a grand

Unknown Speaker 9:45
Yeah, so it’s a grand to get started on our platform.

Unknown Speaker 9:48
And then what what are what is kind of the average is like we see like on here they commence I’ve never heard of that 500 bucks a bottle is I mean, what’s the kind of the median and what’s kind of the higher end price per bottle

Unknown Speaker 10:00
I think it really depends on how much you put in. Because, you know, there’s bottles that can range up to thousands, even 10s of thousands. And some of our higher level clients, you know that the bigger portfolio sizes, it opens you up to more of the wine universe available to purchase. But our average consumer goes around like six $7,000 worth of wine, you know, that’s 5060 bottles, you know, things you know, things that are ranging from 100 something bucks to up to 500 bucks a bottle.

Unknown Speaker 10:28
So when you’re starting this company in the early stages, were you like walking around with like, 10 bucks 10 grand bottles of wine? I mean, what was

Unknown Speaker 10:38
in your hands?

Unknown Speaker 10:39
I mean, I mean, some of these bottles are Yeah, they’re 10 grand, they’re 2020 grand, you know, it’s uh, it’s pretty surreal, but just so treated as an investment, right? Like you hold you hold the bar gold, it’s gonna be pretty, pretty pricey as well.

Unknown Speaker 10:53
Yeah. Do you drink your own supply? Or what’s the average

Unknown Speaker 10:57
of my I think that’s also a good thing about having the storage out of sight out of mind is you know you have some friends over and you have a couple bottles have a good time. It’s really easy to just like reach into the back of your cellar and accidentally pop something back could be thousands to thousands of dollars. So what I drink is much cheaper than that. Okay, what do you drink by the way? I mean I love I love serraj so either from like northern road or from like Santa Barbara I think that’s like my my go to bridal. Yeah, that’s that’s kind of what I’ve been drinking now.

Unknown Speaker 11:34
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Unknown Speaker 12:55
Exactly. Because you know why people have been storing wine for decades, even centuries. The biggest thing Like, you can’t really do it profitably unless you get economies of scale. So by working with a platform like Coronavirus, we’re able to pass along those savings at scale so that it actually becomes profitable for you to store and manage and invest in wine.

Unknown Speaker 13:14
So if you have like a 500 Well, I guess it wouldn’t be a $500 bottle, but it’d be a $5,000 case, how much would it be per year? Or how do they charge you to store that

Unknown Speaker 13:25
in the so cars like an annual annual management fee based on the value, so with our fees on vino bus, we charge consumers 2.85% annually to manage the asset. So that includes everything from sourcing to fraud detection, to storage insurance, as well as the active managers, all that’s kind of included in ours in our fee structure.

Unknown Speaker 13:49
So these are the questions as an investor you guys want to ask, you know first, like the fraud detection, that’s like when you buy a piece of real estate, you have the title, search and you make sure that the title Clean, you know, I’m assuming if you want to talk to that at the end, like what’s the what is the procedure for the wind to get legitimized? Yeah, cuz like,

Unknown Speaker 14:07
like you mentioned, like there’s a lot of fake wine out there, right? There’s a lot of fake everything. First we have our team be able to inspect that a, it’s authentic, it actually came from the winery, not some, not some person who have remodeled it, and that it is in excellent condition, because, you know, wine is a living thing, right? If you leave in the sun, it’s going to be turning into vinegar and be worthless. So we inspect the condition inspect that it’s authentic. And then when we put in our, in our storage, we actually have an insurance policy that then covers it against all sort of future damage breakage, and it’s insured at its full market value. So you know, we don’t have FDIC in the wine industry, but this is like pretty much, you know, the next best thing

Unknown Speaker 14:48
Yeah, and that and that insurance thing, just like you insure real estate or your cars, that’s a big thing for investors. You know, there was an investment going around last year was like buying some kind of citrus fruit. In different country or you know, any kind of crops, right, you want to, you want to be able to know that if there’s a fire Well, no big deal, you know, it’s insurance not for you’re not gonna be a total loss.

Unknown Speaker 15:11
Exactly. Exactly. Awesome. So, you know, wanted to kind of talk about portfolio construction, right? Because if you’re more on the aggressive side, just like stocks, there’s going to be emerging markets, there’s going to be newer wineries that have potential to outperform the index. And if you’re more on the conservative side, there’s more like your equivalent of blue chips, right. So in this case, it’d be usually wines from from France and from Europe. So Bordeaux, Burgundy, champagne, those are definitely like wine growing regions that have been growing wine for centuries. So we have hundreds of years of historical pricing data we can predict with our AI model with a very high degree of confidence what future returns will be and then there are kind of emerging markets you know, whether it be Australia ci, lay some newer parts of California in Italy or the road and So that’s kind of how we look at portfolio construction making sure that people stay within their risk ranges and that we can give them the right sort of expected returns when you’re looking at this holistically as an alternative asset within their entire portfolio.

Unknown Speaker 16:15
So we had another similar investment on the podcasts of art, I think the the URL was But you know, the blue chips are like the I mean, if you can get your hands on like the Picasso’s or like all the classical guys but the the new up and comers are like the Andy Warhol I didn’t know who that is apparently, he’s pretty famous, but what are what are some of the like the new I mean, do people even know I mean, I mean, you’re you probably like land you dude, you don’t even know these, these kind of why? Even why even tell you? But I mean, what are some like names or brands that are examples of the two

Unknown Speaker 16:51
so I can give you a good example. So there’s someone called Erickson so he came from one of the most famous wineries in America called screaming Eagle, those bottles retail thousands of dollars, and he loves to go start his own winery. So that’s an example of an emerging kind of winery to look at because it’s someone coming from, you know, a top top winery leaving to start his own brands even though there’s no historical track record per se. You know, it’s someone who’s very very well regarded like say, if you know, the CEO of Apple loves to go start his own new company, people are gonna think it’s hot. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 17:28
I was thinking like David Beckham coming to the LA Galaxy.

Unknown Speaker 17:32
Yeah, that’s, that’s exactly like that, right, like newer, smaller market unestablished. But, you know, there’s gonna be a following

Unknown Speaker 17:38
so what is like what is the the typical returns that people can kind of expect from you know, doing like more of a blue chip kind of a classical portfolio or more up and coming a little more riskier? What’s

Unknown Speaker 17:51
Yeah, so I’d say with like, our kind of, like, if you’re just tracking the index, you’re gonna get 12% annualized returns, you know, that’s, that’s over the course of decades. That’s what we are. been seeing over the past few years, more aggressive portfolio is going to be ranging up, you know, 16 18% annualized returns. And then if you want to go like super, super conservative, I think our conservative investors have averaged closer to like 8% annual returns.

Unknown Speaker 18:14
And that’s all inclusive of like what you said at 2.8%. About that’s, that’s how you guys make your money. Yeah, so those numbers I’m quoting are before your fees, you take off the fees on top of those returns. Okay, so if you’re if you’re saying 12% analyze returns, they’re sitting at what a nine point something percent per year. Exactly. Okay. I mean, it’s, it’s a hard asset. It doesn’t cash flow, but it’s really cool. So I think I mean, I think that’s the appeal. Right? You say you own these these bottles somewhere? I mean, are what are clients doing? Like they want to show it off? Right? Do they get to see hold the bottle or get to visit it at the safe?

Unknown Speaker 18:57
Yeah. So if they want to visit it, they can can do it anytime they want to take it out, drink it, they can do that anytime. So I think that’s one of the benefits of not securitizing or not owning fractional shares that represent an asset, actually owning the asset is that at the end of the day, you have the direct benefit of owning that physical asset and you can do whatever you want with it at the end of the day. So a lot of our investors like maybe they want to know more about wine or maybe they want to get something for like their, their kids birth year to share on their wedding day, right? So they’ll buy 10 cases and you know, 10 years later they’ll sell off five and then use the profits generated from that five to basically drink nice wine for free with the other five

Unknown Speaker 19:40
Yeah, I’ve thought of like you know, a lot of the deals that we’ll do are like five to seven years, you know, go and buy a bottle case right now and then have it just sit in your safe for five years without turning into vinegar at my house. So guys, um, you know, a couple takeaways that are very similar. Are these the reason why I kind of bring these kind of off the wall investments is it kind of it helps us as passive investors kind of understand and value these type of investments. So for example, Anthony was talking about, you know, legitimising the wine and and I don’t know if it’s some kind of barcode or you know some certified inspection process but you know, like I was looking at life settlements which is you know, you’re you’re kind of buying the asset is a piece of paper a contract with the individual so on their passing but the when I was looking into this one particular one I wasn’t able to get it verified yet so the Emeritus or Northwest feature on the top but I didn’t know if it was just like a fraudulent piece of paper and that’s what made me uncomfortable, but in this case, anti right like these things are some some third party is backing them. Is that how it’s done?

Unknown Speaker 20:54
Exactly. So you can independently audit your ownership every single investor when They come onto a platform and they buy a bottle, you know, there is a paper trail so you can see, and you can visit and you can actually touch your actual asset, you know, we try to make it as as direct as possible in terms of adding you have the kind of confidence you need to invest in something new that you may not be familiar with.

Unknown Speaker 21:17
And another thing that Anthony mentioned was, you know, I forgot who was that that guy that had the wiring that was moving wineries?

Unknown Speaker 21:25

Unknown Speaker 21:26
yeah, and Eric’s and he’s kind of like the, I would call them the brains of the operation. So I was looking at oil and gas investment and I actually went down there and I met the in the oil and gas investment, it’s, you know, just putting holes in the ground, but the geologists is kind of the the guru, the brains of the operation. So I met him and his dog down there in Texas, and that person is the person that you kind of bet your money on. And in this case, that’s the brains and I guess you could call it similar with you know, apartment vesting, which would be like the owner operator. In that case, but, you know, when you’re investing, you need to figure out where’s that, where’s the brains of the operation, the intellectual firepower of the investment, because that’s, you know, you’re trying to pick the winners here. And, you know, a lot of times you have very little, you may not know too much about the investment. But in some cases, it’s better to go with the proven folks even though past performance does not indicate future success. But in this case, it’s just what sugar and water I don’t know what makes wine grapes or something like that, just grapes. And anything else that you know, that kind of takeaways that investors can take from this or anything else we missed?

Unknown Speaker 22:38
Um, I think the interesting about wine is that it’s, it’s pretty uncorrelated to the market. In good times and bad times people can be drinking wine. And what really drives wine value is that it needs time to age and get better than the bottle. And as it gets better in the bottle, people are drinking from that annual supply, right? So supply dwindles crops up demand. And you know, we’ve seen it even this year with the stock market volatility. In the first quarter when the s&p was down, I think like 20 something percent. You know, our investors are up, and they’re up on this year too. So, you know, it’s not going to be something that’s like Bitcoin or hot tech stock where you’re getting, you know, 50% in a year, although there are some like that, but it is something that’s steady. It is something that is new that, you know, hasn’t really been available unless you’re ultra, ultra wealthy or ultra well connected. And we’re just looking to give this access to more people.

Unknown Speaker 23:35
Now. I’m actually happy I’m in the opposite seat because most times I’m in your seat people are pegging me with hard questions. So here’s a card question these days with the whole rise of of craft beer, because people are cheap, don’t have much money. You know, people are moving more towards that as an also marijuana. You know, eating brownies is probably a lot Well, I don’t know I don’t want to say if it’s healthy or not, but healthier than drinking alcohol, I mean has is that impacting wine prices as a whole,

Unknown Speaker 24:09
I think on the lower level, so like, you know, grocery store wines, definitely, I think as technology has gotten better, they’ve been able to create wine more cheaply and sell it for more cheaply. But this segment that we’re looking at is like, you know, pretty much the top top like 5%, and that is going to be still very, very much so untouched, you know, it’s a luxury segment, people are still going to be wanting these brands, you know, like the equivalent of like, the Ferraris and blue buttons in the wine world. And I don’t think, you know, something that is happening on kind of the lower segments will really affect what we’re doing here.

Unknown Speaker 24:47
And then, you know, as an investor, you know, you always want to be looking at the exit strategy. You know, don’t buy anything that you can unload at any point, even though you know, you got to assume these things are illiquid for the most part, but what’s the what’s the Like if somebody wanted to unload their their case, is that really easy? Is there like a steady supply of buyers? And then, you know, do you guys, do you guys make money off of the commission off that sale? Or is it all encompassing the asset management fee?

Unknown Speaker 25:15
Yeah, good question. So we don’t charge anything extra to liquidate. We don’t have any sort of like minimum lockup periods or anything like that. Because we’re working with wine. And you know, it is a consumable. So if you want to exit, we’re not only selling to other wine investors on our platform, but think about all the retailers distributors, hotel restaurant chains that are all looking to buy wine and consume it. So because of that the liquidity is a lot better the way we’re the way that we’re doing it than a lot of other alternatives. Well,

Unknown Speaker 25:46
so Anthony, once you get your contact information for people to get ahold of you, if not, I can put it at simple passive cash flow calm slash wine Are you guys should know.

Unknown Speaker 25:57
Just feel free to email me directly. If you have any questions. It’s Anthony vino best CO and you know you can browse our website and make an investment directly on there. Cool.

Unknown Speaker 26:08
Well, yeah, thanks everybody for joining us again check out all different types of investments it’s simple passive cash slash menu you know, I think there were like musicals and all kinds of things you can invest in. Maybe one day I’ll buy like the Backstreet Boys I wanted that way royalties, and a bottle of 12 pack of one of these fancy wines. But if you guys haven’t done so check out our investor clubs both passive cash flow calm slash club, and you’ll get access to the first three trial ecourse sections there.

Unknown Speaker 26:46
This website

Unknown Speaker 26:47
offers very general information concerning real estate for investment purposes every investor situation is unique. Always seek the services of licensed third party appraisers inspectors to verify the value and condition of any property you intend to purchase. Use the services of professional title and escrow companies and licensed tax investment and or legal advisor before relying on any information contained here and information is not guaranteed as an every investment there is risk. The content found here is just my opinion and things change and I reserve the right to change my mind. Above all else, do your own analysis and think for yourself because in the end, you’re the only person who is going to look out for your best interests.