Today, we’re going to be talking to George Newbury, get the latest on his newest AHP fund. The guests that come on, or I would say in any podcasts that you listened to, a lot of people will just go on podcasts, track record and verification, isn’t there like how it is with George, I’m actually investor with him. I’ve been investing in his fund for the past three, four years Monthly dividends like clockwork but just be aware of that.
We bring in people that I trust I think a lot of people listen to a lot of podcasts. You jot down some names and numbers and you feel like not some random person off the street, but in actuality, you are totally investing some off the street that happens to be able to email the podcast calls, to get an opportunity to pitch an audience out there.
So if you’re one of those persons, don’t do that, guys, you will probably win the financial Darwinism award b y doing this, it is not smart. Build the right people around you, organic relationships with other accredited investors. Unfortunately, a lot of these people, they’re not at the local area.
They’re not on the free forms some Facebook groups are not the places to find other pure passive accredited investors, but they are out there. If you guys are looking to join our inner circle, join the family office Ohana mastermind. Go to simple passive cashflow.com/journey.
Thanks for all you guys. Who’ve been reaching out to me. The daughter is about four months old now. Very happy and healthy. We’re very glad of that. For some of you guys who are not parents yet . Oh boy, boy’s life going to change for your guys.
Something that I’ve been thinking about lately is I’m actually deathly afraid of passing down the wealth to the next generation. 90% of wealth leaves families in two to three generations, most likely because I don’t know what it’s, because either there’s no motivation to do anything or.
There is no need to do a thing to get off the ground and moving. But that is why I surround myself with my family office, Ohana mastermind as we source the best practices for not only finding deals, who to stay away from taxes, legal, infinite banking, but more of the soft stuff, right? Like how do you teach your kids?
You give them an allowance, how you teach them about money investing, et cetera, and what actually works. A lot of that stuff just isn’t written out there. And I also feel like a lot of the events that we put together you bring the kids, they see other people different age ranges. I never listened to my parents and I don’t really think that, if you have a voice to your kids who consider yourself lucky, but maybe if you have somebody else in your inner circle that can help translate, investment financial literacy, I think that’s going to be your best shot.
So you guys want more of these legacy building ideas, go to simple passive cashflow.com/legacy. And thanks for those of you guys who showed up to our Saturday cram school to learn about syndication. We posted the video at simplepassivecashflow.com/syndication and enjoy the show.
Hey simple passive cashflow listeners today, we are going to be talking to George Newbury, CEO of Pre REO, or as you guys know, it also as AHP.
We’re gonna be talking about pre REO one of the new opportunities and then the next fund that George is going to be taking you guys keep asking why does the name keep changing?
A lot of these funds there’s just a sunset date on them in terms of sec can only raise money for a certain amount of time. But I guess George maybe take us up to the top. Cause I think a lot of people have been investing in AHP from back in the day, what, 2017-18, and then the names get confusing.
Yeah. So they’re different , I appreciate that lane so yes each fund is a different fund, a completely distinct separate company, and that we raised money for. And you’re right, the sec allows you to raise money for two years or allows us or anyone to raise money for up to two years, if it’s a regulation A-plus offering.
So each of these are raised in the regulation A+ over two year period, then we have to close the fund. And typically we make the funds a total of five years from the date of the original investment. So our target has always been, Hey, if you invest today, we’ll get your money back in approximately five years.
And that’s been our goal and we did for 5 0 6 C funds, which are accredited investors only, although all those investors have been paid back and then we Now we’re working on we have to close funds that are active. One is AHP 2015 A+ and one is AHP servicing.
And now we’re just launched recently launched the pre REO fund and they will have one more coming up. That’s actually should be going Very soon, which is AHP title. Right now today, as we speak, there’s two close funds that are still have investor money in 2015 A+ and AHP servicing and then investors can today invest in pre REO and AHP title.
Yeah. So some of you guys are aware of the A-plus offering. It’s unlike the 506 B and 506 C and you guys probably scratch your head. Why are they talking about deals on an openly advertising podcast ? It’s because the A-plus offering allows you to do it.
And the second reason why we’re talking about is I’ve invested in the first fund myself. I trust George and that’s why I’m willing to have him on the podcast. And I know you guys listen to a lot of podcasts and a lot of these podcasts, they just get whoever your Brony to come up on the podcast and try and sell whatever random fun.
But not bananas in Guatemala or whatever in some other random country. If you guys are going on podcasts, trying to look for your next investment, dude that is not what you want to be doing. You want to be building relationships with real accredited investors instead of trolling up podcast land, because there is little due diligence.
And by honestly, don’t do that guys. You guys will win the financial Darwinism award by doing it and the funny thing is when you don’t know anybody, you got nobody to tell that the deal went south and you got your money stolen from you. And then you feel, you want like one of these people with, no peer group and we’ll just complain on Biggerpockets or something like that.
But anyway, I trust George and this is why we’ve brought him. Several times and I’ve invested my own money with them. And I put enough to initially you guys paid my car loan for quite some time, but getting a new car, maybe I got to put more money into the next fund to make that car payment.
Let’s talk about pre REO crowdfunding.
Sure. Let me backtrack real quick to give people an update. Cause I know a lot of investors have invested in AHP 2015 A+ and AHP servicing
Actually that’s me I’m interested. So exact money in that one in 2017-18.
Exactly and the market everyone knows it’s not news to anybody that the market is just red hot right now and that includes for mortgages. We have millions of dollars in modified mortgages. These are families who we’ve modified their loans for that we are now selling and we’re selling them at a at 90- 92 cents of unpaid principal balance, which historically we would sell these in the sixties and seventies.
So it’s just a dramatic uptick. So we are selling everything we can we have enough money right now to catch up on all the redemptions from the COVID era. So it will be completely up to date with the redemptions. We expect to the next few weeks to announce to investors that we’re going to start redeeming all the first investors in both funds.
And we expect to redeem on an accelerated schedule over the next several months. And my goal is to, and we expect to do it is in 2022 that both the existing funds, 2015 A+ and AHP servicing will be all those investors will be fully paid off. My concern in the market right now is it is very hot, but that won’t last forever.
And I don’t want to be looking, a year from now. It could be looking back and say, oh, if only we had dispose of our loans in the first quarter of 2022 or the fourth quarter 2021. We could’ve made this and today we’re going to have to settle for this. So I’m trying to avoid that.
I may be getting out a little bit early, but we do have an opportunity to take advantage of the market that it exists today and repay all the investors. And that is our goal over the next late fourth quarter, 2021 through 2022. So that’s an update. So people should expect their money back early, earlier than the five years in most cases.
The good news is we have pre REO and another fund upcoming AHP title, which they can invest, roll that money into if they so choose.
We talked about this on the last time you’re on the podcast, but to the financial audit, you took us to the audit and then you, at that time, I think that might’ve been half a year ago.
And I think that the climate is still the same in a way, right? You are talking about selling off assets to take advantage. So it’s not much change there, but for the pro tip for folks as if you’re in the fund that it’s going to be exiting soon. It makes sense if you want to stay within the AHP family is to get it out now before George is forced to give it back to you in the fund closes and perhaps get it into the next fund that’s coming.
And the good news is the two new funds we just opened up. They’re open for two years. So whether you’re out in two months or in six months when you get redeemed, it you’ll still get your arm. You’ll still have the ability if you choose to roll them into one of the two new funds.
Your team just sent me an email saying, Hey man, like if you want us to put the dividends and roll the dividends over into the new one that’s another idea.
Yeah, absolutely. This is one which we didn’t do before. We can just now do it, is that if you aren’t a best from 2015 A+ or AHP servicing, then you can’t reinvest those dividends any more because the funds are closed.
However, you can direct us to reinvest into pre REO or AHP title, if you choose. So you can, have the option of making that selection. If you don’t choose either, then you continue to get them in cash.
And at one time it was difficult to do it, because people had to resigned docs every single time. It wasn’t that hard but now
It’s a one-time yes. They go in and sign the new investment docs one time and then we’ll continue to do that until they tell us that an investor chooses not to do it anymore. Okay so let’s talk about pre REO, I think is an interesting, probably to your audience for two reasons.
One is as a crowdfunding investment opportunity, and two is as an investment opportunity just to buy pre Oreos, which we now have people who have bought. And I know we’ve talked about this before. You were actually one of the first to share the news about pre REO, but we now have a lot of repeat investors.
We’re getting a lot of sellers on there and we have some investors who have made, because many times they bought, in the last year and some have exited already. Some of them are doing extremely well with pre REO. So I’ll share how this works, how pre REO works and then talk about how people can participate, whether it’s crowdfunding or directly in pre REO.
I’m sharing some slides that often do to you too. I utilize to introduce pre REO and a brief history. Many of you know this, but in 2008 I founded American homeowner preservation, which was a 5 0 1 C3 nonprofit, which had a mission of keeping families at risk of foreclosure in their homes.
Now we had thousands of families come to us. We were only able to help a modest percentage. And what we did is we found that many banks, mortgage holders, servicers were not receptive to solutions that really made a lot of sense. So we changed our approach and we started buying the faulted mortgages at discounts, and then sharing those discounts with families typically in the form of favorable modifications.
Is where the investment opportunity began. Hey, we can we money to buy these mortgages and we need investors. And 2013, we started crowdfunding. But one asset typically performed the worst out of these pools that we bought. And these were first mortgages secured by vacant properties that were in judicial foreclosure states.
Now we could connect with the homeowner and pay them cash for Edina loo. We could do well Coleman or was PA had passed away or there was no one we couldn’t reach the homeowner, then we’d have to go through foreclosure. And the problem with a first mortgage secured by a vacant property is that we would need to maintain the home.
We can’t, the homeowner’s gone. So the city looks to us or whoever the mortgage holder is to maintain the home. And this is as simple as cutting the grass or shoveling the snow. But also if the property is broken into or falls out of compliance, the city can actually require us to bring the property up to code.
And sometimes we were doing all the work to these properties and making them essentially rent ready. And then they’d sit there for six months a year, sometimes two years a while it went through the foreclosure process. And typically some states that are non-judicial like Texas or California, Arizona, the foreclosures move pretty fast.
You can get them done in six months, but in other states where you have to go through the court system, which is like New York, New Jersey, Florida where I am Illinois, Ohio, and states like. It can take a year and sometimes in, and the extremes will be New York and Hawaii which can take 2, 3, 4 years to complete a foreclosure.
Right now my latest research I saw Hawaiian Yorker kind of neck and neck is the longest foreclosure states to the longest and most expensive states to complete a foreclosure in so this property. think about that. We’ve now the city has ordered us to bring a vacant home, into compliance, make it essentially rent, ready, a home that we don’t own.
We just own the mortgage. So we came up with the idea of, Hey What about if we appointed a local real estate agent as a receiver and they could get a court order, which allows them to do any repairs that are still needed and rent the property during the foreclosure term. And if we could do that, then the rent that’s collected will help offset the costs of any maintenance taxes, insurance go be applied to the loan.
To the extent there was excess. And most importantly it’s a lot easier to maintain an occupied than a vacant one is much less susceptible to vandalism and things like that. And also the the insurance is cheaper, just so many benefits that we can get it occupied. So we started doing that and we had some success with it.
But one challenge we had or one concern was because we’re in Chicago and these properties, mortgages and properties are scattered across the country. We would sometimes think we weren’t sure if we were getting the best prices on, contractors, sometimes they take advantage. We felt like they were taking advantage of us a little bit because we were, a thousand miles away.
So in my mind, I thought, Hey, the ideal solution here is to have a local partner. Somebody who knows the market knows contractors and can help and can have a financial interest in the outcome of this, and they could be our partner on these mortgages. And that was the vision that created pre REO in 2020.
And the goal was to get first mortgages secured by vacant homes, into the hands of local investors during the foreclosure process, instead of waiting till it becomes REO, they could actually get control of the property during foreclosure and that was the original vision.
We’ve talked about this in the past and just to connect the dots for people like the large institutions, they bought a whole bunch of little rental properties back in 2010, and now they’re doing a lot of this build for rent things.
And in my opinion, they’ll probably go through a lot of groaning cranes because large institutions just they’re not good at operating stuff there. People don’t care. They’re just people in suits in Chicago and New York just clicking buttons. And they barely want to go to a lot of these flyover states and we’ll buy a lot of these properties from insurance companies or these kind of more institutional sellers.
Because they don’t have too much skin in the game from a management perspective. So this is exactly like George and his company is like an institution right. They get great deals than the mom and pop investor can’t get access to. And that’s their competitive advantage. If you’re, if somebody’s buying 1, 2, 5, 20 notes, you’re just buying junk from some other guy or with George passed up years, dozens of hand handles and Daisy chain deals over.
But the problem that the institutional guys have is they don’t have foot soldiers. And that’s the kind of the bridge that as an entrepreneur, that’s the segment that you’re trying to cross that gap.
Absolutely. We’re trying to get the institutional seller, provide them a vehicle so that they can connect them with with a local investor. That’s what we’ve done. Right now it’s actually working. We have an institutional seller so originally it was mostly AHP assets on the platform. But right now we have some of the biggest funds that are backed by some of the biggest names on wall street that are posting assets on pre REO. Now the majority of the assets come from third parties from institutional funds rather than from AHP.
So we seeded it to get it going, but now it’s going, which is great. We’re the marketplace and in the middle collecting a fee on each transaction and more we had a one of the keys I’ll get to it as financing and that’s where the crowdfunding comes in. But let’s talk about pre REO the marketplace.
So this is actually, people ask what is pre REO? Pre REO is an online marketplace that connects local real estate investors with lenders. And these are, again, typically institutionals institutions that are looking to sell them. When it first mortgages and REO properties, and these are all over the country.
We’ve had a bunch of Hawaii. We’ve had there we’ve had some million dollar homes. We have some homes that are worth, under $10,000- $20,000 and everything in between across the country. I think we’ve offered in more than 40 states. Originally I envisioned mostly lower value.
But today we just listed to a $4 million homes in in New York, on long island. And there again they’re the first mortgage that’s secured by the formulate our home on long island. So we’re seeing some, and we have some in Brooklyn that are million dollars and all over the country.
Once in a while, you’ll see these million dollar homes. Now pre REO has evolved, that original vision that I shared, it was a first mortgage secured by a vacant property. But now it’s evolved. Now it’s first mortgages that are delinquent secured by vacant properties or occupied properties.
There’s you know, as we talk to more and more institutions, they’re saying, Hey the mortgage is backed by vacant properties. That’s maybe 15% of our portfolio. There’s a whole nother 85% of our portfolio. That’s occupied by owners or tenants. Can you list those? And we started listing those and those were bid on just as aggressively as the vacant ones.
So it’s become a marketplace, right? For simply delinquent first mortgages. And now we actually, next month, we’re listing a, we’re entering a new marketing agreement with a a group that does small balance commercial loans. So these are like strip malls, small office buildings retail, stuff like that.
Tons of defaults in that arena right now. And so that we’ll start seeing creeping up. There’s some hotels, I think, in the first batch that are going to creep into the onto the platform shortly as well.
So here are all the problems that we’re trying to solve with pre REO institutional sellers. They often realize that by selling to the local real estate investor, who would bought, who really would be comfortable owning the property that buyer is most likely the best buyer for the mortgage. But as we talk to sellers, the vision was, Hey if I get to sell my mortgages to a hundred different buyers, then that means we have to do know your customer checks on a hundred different buyers.
The big institutions usually have to do backgrounds on each of their of their buyers. That’s a hundred different KYC checks. It’s a hundred different contracts and they thought there’s no way it’s whatever gain we get by maybe selling for an extra 5 cents or 5%. We’re going to get back with, going back and forth on all these different contracts.
Not worth it. We’re not going to do it. So we came up with a solution and the solution was to put all the loans that are transacted on pre REO into our trust and the trustees U.S.Bank. And so now going to the sellers, okay. The buyer is only one buyer for all these loans. And it’s a trust and it’s U.S. Bank as the trustee.
So they know your customer checks. It’s fine. It’s only one contract. And then we sell a participation interest to each of the local ambassadors, and it’s a participation interest in a specific asset that’s held in the trust. And so that was really the key component that has made this really buyable.
And the other problem that the trust has solved is that about half the states in the union require that you have a license to hold or enforce a mortgage. So I’m in Illinois. If you want to start foreclosure on a mortgage here. You need to have a debt collectors license. And if you don’t, you can’t foreclose.
Now, if you did foreclose , then that could be used as a defense by the consumer to delay or stop the foreclosure and also potentially regulators could find or otherwise provide come after you. I haven’t heard of that happening in Illinois, but I have heard in Pennsylvania, there’s been a number of smaller investors who bought defaulted mortgage loans in Pennsylvania, and they’ve ended up getting fine sometimes substantial.
$50,000 and orders to divest themselves of these mortgages. Some servicers have some smaller servicers and mortgage buyers just aren’t buying in Pennsylvania. Georgia is also enforced this. Massachusetts has enforced this other states. Don’t enforce it proactively, but it is still a big risk.
But the great news is if a loan is held, a mortgage is held in a trust and there’s a national bank trustee. Just like how we have it set up then that compliance, you don’t need a license that complies with all states for the licensor requirements. So it checked that box as well by holding them in a trust.
So now an investor who buys just one loan can be compliant in by holding it in our trust. That’s the other problem that we’ve solved. The other big one is that Difficult historically, to borrow money, to buy mortgages or to against a mortgage. So think about if you like all the properties that you buy Lane, multi-family properties, you oftentimes are getting a mortgage and they record a mortgage when you sell the property or refinance.
The mortgage is recorded there, you gotta pay it. But if you want to get a loan against the mortgage, that has been historically difficult. You’re trying to collateralize a mortgage. By using the trust, now we actually take title to the property, provide the participation interest to the local investor, and that allows us to finance.
And if they were to default, there’s a rapid 30 day forfeiture action that we can take. We basically send a notice to the investor. Hey, you’re in default, you have 30 days to bring the default current or to cure the default. If they don’t do it, then they forfeit their participation interest.
It’s something where we don’t get bogged down in a longterm foreclosure or some other type of court action like that. And all these investors are putting down 25%. So the likelihood, especially in today’s market, if anyone defaulting is very modest. The final problem that we solved as local investors.
Today, our star for deals the REOs with the foreclosure merge moratoriums and all the competition in the market. It has been very difficult to have a steady flow of real estate opportunities if they’re buying the properties, but if we move them up the food chain and start buying defaults and mortgages, there are a lot of opportunities and at significant discounts, the average note on our platform is sold right around 75% of the value of the underlying property. So if a property is worth $200,000 that’s probably being offered at $150,000 to buy the mortgage.
So basically our pre REO is providing the opportunities. So you can go identify mortgages that you want to buy you. We also provide you the capital? We provide resources like a service or a law firm. A trustee that can all help throughout the process and a compliant holding vehicle for all the investors.
So it’s really solved a small mortgage investors even a smaller funds, their challenges at finding opportunities, finding money and finding a vehicle to hold the asset. We right now both on the buyer and seller side, we’re seeing a lot of interest next month. We expect to list over a thousand properties in one month on the platform, which is a huge infusion for us this month in October, we should list several hundred next month to be first time we go over a thousand and That is just in time for year end, where we think there’ll be a motivation for funds to sell these at attractive prices. So we do see a big opportunity in the next time and the next 60 to 75 days where for the year end, there’ll be some great deals for investors.
This is where if you people have been watching my monthly updates like Adam came up with some data that saying those people who are house flippers their return on investment is almost like a 10 year low, because so much competition in the market.
So if you’re looking for a different faucet for deal flow, this is where to get it. Granted most, you guys, my audience George, most of ’em are high income earners, passive investors. So they’re more looking for the fun.
The appeal to the other guys that are more passive investors is maybe it might be a great way that you can find something in your backyard, that something to tinker around and get to get real estate professional status, some kind of thing to screw around with to get that 750 hour.
So you use the passive losses to possibly lower ordinary income, or maybe I buy a house one day here in Hawaii, but I want to get a good deal on it. That’s where maybe it might come down. Like one of these days. Although that one a Millani on there has been on there for, I don’t want to live in there. It’s too close to my parents.
It’s odd. I wouldn’t have suspected. Hawaii has as many assets as we see. We see a lot in Hawaii which historically is not a place that we see a lot of non-performing mortgages, but there’s been a lot especially condos but also some houses.
I want that house that’s $6 million that was worth 10 million that the bank foreclosed on.
You never know. We had two, $4 million assets that weren’t in Hawaii today. But there are some multi-million dollar assets that have been listed on the platform. I’ll tell you there’s one gentlemen, one pre REO buyer who said the best deal he ever did in his life.
And he’s been doing this for a living for years, was on pre REO. He bought the first mortgage secured by a a home in singer island, Florida last year. And I think he bought it for. Under $2 million, just under $2 million. He thought it was worth 2.5 to $3 million and six months later he completed the foreclosure, the tenant.
He paid the tenant $25,000 to vacate the home and he got excited. He called me a few months before it was foreclosed on and said, Hey, the broker says I can probably sell this for three. And then right when he got the tenant out the broker said, Hey, list is a 3.5.
He ended up listing at 3.8. He ended up listing a 3.5 and getting multiple offers and taking off at 3.8, made over a million dollars on one single pre REO asset, which is just insane. And that’s the record deals that I’m aware of so far. You should have got an equity on that line. Cause he essentially, you guys just play as the 12% note we get.
Today we get $2,000 of 2% of the acquisition price. Plus we get the 12% then he put on 25%. So in this case it was a half a million dollars on that he put down. So he put down it’s a big amount of money. He was the risk position. That’s, I think what’s attractive, especially going into a potential, uncertain market of the future, where there’s an investor putting down 25%.
There’s a discount of 25% off the current value of the property. Then the local investor puts up 25%. So the money that we’re putting up is in a pretty secure position, even as this market starts getting on, getting a little shaky in the next year. Which is likely to happen.
I think we’ll be in a very protected position and hopefully everyone does really well, but ultimately there’s going to be a downturn. And I think that 25% discount plus a 25% down payment will keep us in a very protected position and still generate a good return for our investors.
Be good for folks like myself, have trouble qualifying for mortgages or car loans because of our business owners, you guys, it says nice. You don’t have to Dick around with a bank. You guys are just the private lender.
Exactly. We do some very basic qualifications but if you have decent credit and if you’re an investor, the things that may.
Yeah, too many properties or whatnot that may bar you typically, that’s not going to be impediment with us. We’re making common sense logical decisions and in our underwriting, and basically we feel very comfortable the 25% down payment on something that’s already discounted and something that we could forfeit within 30 days of you ended up defaulting. So it does have a a lot of protections for the lender.
Can you take me through maybe not that particular Asur, maybe it is, but like, how does that note trickle? Like where does it originate from what was it in like a lot of 500 to bot.
No. Initially some, most of the ones came from AHP, so they were in like a big pool that we bought and maybe they were vacant initially were all vacant.
So we take the vacant ones that were in long-term foreclosure states and put them on the site, with anticipating people would use the receivership actions. Now from third-party funds, some of them are laid in the foreclosure process. Many of them are occupied. So receivership doesn’t apply on those, but people are just buying them.
And so they may I think for the sellers in their minds, they can pick up more and more or less 5% more than they could buy simply selling it in a big pool to a national investor because that national investor is going to say, okay, if I foreclose on this, I’ve got to pay a commission. I got to do this, that and discounted a little bit for a local REO ambassador here.
We’re selling it to the local REO investor in many cases. So they are comfortable with, paying a little bit more, but now they’re buying the mortgage which they otherwise couldn’t do. The sellers that we work with, none of them would be selling these individually. It’s always going to be in pools of, a hundred or even 500 or more.
And now they’re selling them, effectively one by one, and they’re get taking bids one by one. But the key is the process is that when we close these, we’re typically closing multiple ones at a time and we do one or two closings a month with each fund and so we grouped their assets together. So for them it’s not burdensome to have too many contracts or anything like that.
So I’m just going walk to the steps. It’s hard to follow for myself. So like I go to the website, I look for a property that I’m like, Hey George, I like this one. It’s a million dollar property.
I think it might be worth maybe a little bit more, hopefully a million and a half. But I put down 25%. And I, which is 250 and I pay your guys’ listing fee of two grand, right? So 250, 252,000.
Actually it just changed. So now we got 2000 or 2%, whichever is higher. So in that case you actually played 20 grand. I we’re seeing traction. It makes sense. It’s still a great deal.
I give you about 250 for that property. I take ownership over it is somebody still take ownership for them? To be clear, you’re buying the mortgage. So you take ownership or participation interest in the mortgage. And as part of the cap, the participation interests, you have delegated authority.
So you make all the decisions. Do we proceed with foreclosure? Do we take a modification if the homeowner asks for that? Do we, what do we set if it goes to foreclosure sale? Bidding, where do you set the bid at? Okay. Now it’s foreclosed on, do we sell it as is? Or do you want to do repairs to the property?
These are all decisions that you get to make on the loan. So you’d work with AHP servicing. The servicer will be in constant contact with you in terms of, what. What’s needed, for you to approve, because you’re basically controlling the destiny of this particular mortgage, but yet that’s what you own.
You own a participation interest in the mortgage and after we’ll get the 12% Everything else goes to you. So you get all the upside. So that guy that made a million bucks, we got 12% on our money. He made, a million plus bucks and that is, he gets to keep the upside and that’s, just like when you buy a house or a multi-family building, the lender gets a predetermined return and then the owner takes the risk.
They can make a lot of money, they can make a little money, they could lose a little, lose a lot. That’s what the owner gets, but ultimately the mortgage holder or the debt provider gets a predetermined return. And in this market, that’s where. That’s the way to go in and out in uncertain times, that’s the position that we want to be in the investor that takes it over.
What are most people doing? They can’t do the heartless fraud and. AHB serving. We want about, Nope. I want to make deals. What are the percentage of where people are doing? Yeah. Good percentage. We’re just going to go through the process and go to foreclosure. They’re already, almost all of them are already in foreclosure.
However, I’d say there’s going to be 25 to 30. At some point, want to do some kind of deal like a mod. And my messaging is if a homeowner says they want a mod and they qualify for one we’ll present it to the investor and I encourage them to take it. Or if it doesn’t make if it’s not quite rich enough financially, they can counter it.
But. Reject it. And here’s why, because if a homeowner really wants to stay and the investor really wants to get them out and get the home there’s a reasonable likelihood that Comodo will get an attorney and fight the foreclosure, which could add months or years to the foreclosure. And in those, in that period, the homeowners.
Tourney not paying you. The lender is the investor will then be paying the attorney as well. It will not be a happy outcome. So my, my purse, what I share with most investors is that if you do five of these, you probably get REO on maybe three of them. There’ll be two where you do a mod or some other, maybe a deed in lieu or short sales, something like that.
And that is you have to account for that and be prepared for that. And that really is the right thing to do. And the other part is the investor will say wait, I don’t want a mod because I need to be collecting payments for the next 20 years. I want to get in and out of things, make my money and do it again.
And I say, okay, wait, look at it a little bit differently because today, if you do a modification about on a loan, which you just bought it, let’s say 75. And the homeowner gives you a down payment. Maybe they may give you a lump sum of five grand. Then they paid monthly payments for six months on time.
Maybe you’re getting a grand a month when that started. They made six payments on time. You can sell that loan at probably 90% today. We’re selling our performing loans at 90, 92%. And that will so you’ll make a profit. So you’re starting to make money now. Quite so much as if you actually got titled to the property where you’re going to make a good return.
So do these on an ongoing basis. You get some RTOs, you’ll get some mods, but in all cases there’s opportunities to make money in HBS servicing. We’ll do. We sell it alone. Okay. Actually, I wasn’t aware of that exit strategy, so yeah. And this is an odd one and that came out of pre REO.
So the institutional buyers, when it’s a non-performing loan, the best buyer is the local investor. But when the, when a low, a smaller seller is trying to sell a re-performing loan. Selling them one by one. You’ll probably get the worst price. The best price will be if you can aggregate a large pool of them.
So what we’re doing now is some of the premier investors have agreed to modifications on their loans. And now the people have paid several months on time. We’re putting them in large pools that we offer, which are, they’re not as large as I’d like, but maybe they’re $10 million. And it’s a combination of HP owned assets plus pre REO investors, even some other smaller investors.
And then we offer them to large institutions to. To buy. And when they buy when they make a bid, we’ll come back to the investor and say, Hey, do you accept this? They accept it. And we close. Then we get a 2% fee. And that has worked out well because we’re selling these things at say 92 cents. If they sold them directly on their own a, the institution wouldn’t buy it.
They’d probably be selling. 10 10% less than that. If not even less than that. And I, to give you an example, the last couple of wires we’ve gotten where it came from, Goldman Sachs. These are funds that are backed by Goldman Sachs or other large wall street banks that are buying these these re-performing assets.
And and so that’s. Ultimately pre REO is making money, when they’re non-performing and being sold. And also when they’re re-performing and being coming from institutions and going back into institutions so we see opportunities from both sides. And we educate the investors that this is, you need to be prepared for any of these outcomes and and act accordingly.
But if you do so you can make a there’s the opportunity to make money, regardless of the. Yeah. Cause I, I know you, you have a soft heart, right? Like you want get these things, but you’ve already tried. So it’s Mr and Mrs. Late payments, we want to work with you, but if not, we have to ship you off to our pre REO sharks.
And they’re not, and again, as people, some people will not reach out or respond to. The outreach until there’s Hey, there’s a foreclosure sale next week. And now they want a mod after six months or a year, but that’s what happens sometimes. And again, I still, I encourage investors if we can make it financially viable on both sides to go ahead and seriously consider taking that model.
Yeah. Yeah. Most real estate investors, not in our community. But you know which one I’m talking about. The people that it’s like, they don’t like, they like to be their own landlord. Cause they don’t want the property manager 8%. That’s the scarcity, mind people, typically real estate investors are always the ones that, oh, can I get a discount?
Can I get a discount? Like they’re the ones that the shark. Looking to foreclose these people, as soon as they take over the asset, because time is money and velocity of money, but you guys you keep it honorable, right? Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. If you do the right thing in the annual do better in aggregate, you may not make quite as much as you could on an individual asset basis, but on the, in an aggregate you’re going to do better.
And as an entrepreneur, George, you’ve done it again. You’ve made little points here and there and that’s an, and you feeling filling the void. So what the needs in the marketplace for the flyers and south and collecting a fee here and there and collecting a spread on the money? It is I actually pre REO.
We see a big. We see a potential for a lot of growth. To the point where right now people are saying, Hey, I bought, I’m buying this loan from some other fund. They didn’t get it off pre REO. Can you provide the financing? And we’re saying, sure, we’ll do the financing. So we’re right now we finance on an off platform deals.
And And, the majority of people are buying on pre REO, it’s not to say every loan is, has to transact on pre REO. They could they may have a relationship at a fund and they want to buy something, but they need the financing. Even a small pools were financing. But again, that there’s a huge need for financing for smaller buyers in this market.
And the buyer doesn’t have to be tiny, even for some buying a few million bucks, they may need financing. So we see it as a big opportunity. If something comes up, man in Hawaii, let me know. And I’ll I’ll do it. I’ll be a Guinea pig for everybody. Absolutely. Go on pre reo.com. I know there’s so I know we’ve had it Hawaii assets.
I’m pretty comfortable. I’m pretty confident that there’s some there right now. I don’t want a three about a week ago. I just don’t want to buy anything on the east side. I don’t know. Hawaiian. Yeah. Yeah. I’m not going anywhere on that side, but So there’s, we, you go through this, the lender, HP financing is the lender, and this is maybe a good transition into the fund. Is that the fund that’s getting these loans? Is that hard for the last year? Yeah, so sure. HP servicing has been funding pre REO loans for the last year. That’s all transitioning right now. They’re all being funded with pre-op by pre REO.
With this new crowd funding offering. So think about that in the past, HP servicing was a 10% fun. So we have money coming in at temper, our repeat behind crowdfunding investors, 10%. And we loaning out a 12%, pretty skinny but it worked right now with the lower interest rate environment we pay crowdfund investors 7%, whereas loaning it out of 12%.
So there’s a five point spread in the middle. And are you guys still doing that? You had that pre REO e-course at one time. Yeah. And we’re doing a new one that is still live at dot com. There is an e-course there’s another one we’re going to do a live one in in December. We record it and share it with make it available.
In perpetuity on online. But yeah, that one, there’s a new one coming up in December. A lot of things have changed since last November when we did that one. So we’re wanna include all the updates in the new one, in the new opportunity. In the new e-course yeah, something I’m thinking of this.
I’m not a big fan of retirement funds, but if you guys got them, the bad thing about note investing is you don’t get the passive losses at the least. But this would be something idea that you would do with in a retirement account, especially when there’s a high potential for explosive gains.
If you were to sell the property. Yeah. Yeah. People have bought P people have bought pre REO with their IRA account. There’s nothing, no problem. Doing.
And let me I got to share about the crowdfunding part of it. And here it is. So this is just so everyone understands on the crowd funding opportunity. It pays out 7% just as all the HP funds, in the past we distribute every month, it’s open. This is key. It’s open to accredited.
And non-accredited investors. That’s a big for regulation. A plus that’s a big benefit that almost anyone can invest. There’s some limits in terms of what, how much a non-accredited investor can can cannabis. But you’ll see that, they’ll see that on the site, the minimum investment, only 100 bucks and that is, we want to make it as accessible as possible to everybody.
And this offering is qualified by the sec to raise up to 75 million through regulation. A-plus. What is that like the BDN or average investor? 7,000 bucks is our average investment. Ooh, wow. Oh and then I guess the other question I had with this prod funding method. Like liquidity, right?
Like when, if the people need their money back, how is that? Sure. This has been a, so historically HP has offered this, I think since 2016, that if an investor needs their money back, we will undertake our best efforts to return it within 30 days and pre COVID. We were consistently able to do it. COVID hit.
We were unable to do it. We just caught up on the COVID air redemptions and the going forward, we don’t expect another situation like that. So we do expect that we’ll be back to returning money within 30 days upon request the or at least undertaking our best efforts to do that. Now, key caveats, all that is if the investment is redeemed in the first.
Year then the return goes from 7% to 5%. If it’s redeemed in the second year, it goes from 7% to 6%. If the investor keeps the the investment outstanding for at least two years, they can request redemption at any time and they’d be able to keep the full 7%. And I think this is for investors.
I think they just need to get a little more sure what this, like these investments, the reason why you’re not making 0% is that there is some liquidity. Like you can’t just assume that you’re going to get the money right back. I still think what you guys do for investors is, pretty amazing.
If you can even there’s even a possibility of redemption. You guys are using in liquid investments at the end of the day. Yeah, investors can’t really expect to get money back and forth and use it like an ATM. Although I know investors have used in the past and they got comfortable with that.
And then when COVID hit, it became difficult to get the money out. That’s something that luckily, the market’s gone the way it has. It’s now gotten returning to the point where, we expect to be returning money early on those two legacy funds.
And I think in the two new funds, I, a pre REO and the soon to be launched HB title, and those you’ll be able to Yeah, I think we’ll be back on track in terms of getting money back within 30 days when needed. Yeah. And everybody asks that question that comes up a lot of times in HP and pro is always in there.
Part of the solution is oh, what do I do with my short-term liquidity before I look up from our longer term or asymmetric type of risk deals? Are those more. And I tell everybody that’s where you guys have to join the mastermind group and stuff’s going around and doing it all on your own, just suckers, like seriously, like you’re not going to find out if it’s different for everybody, finding opportunities is through your network and it’s different for everybody. And everybody’s trying to do this all by themselves. These should be crowdsourcing, best practices for other people. I’m just, I’m not going to tell you guys what to do out there because you, then you guys will get mad at me.
Just like how you got mad at George, because you can’t redeem your $7,000, the first one, right? You guys, these are the tools you guys need to put these tools into the right border and the right name to say and understand what you’re working with. Those pros and cons to everything. I still invest with.
But I have it within my holistic liquidity opportunity fund. I think you guys can still get that article at simplepassivecashflow.com/poolfunds. But as part of the education process, I guess a lot of people alternative investing or private funds are still new to a lot of people agreed.
It’s a new experience and lots of times when things are going well, it’s like today with the real estate market where everything’s going so strong, people forget that, Hey, at some point it won’t be so strong and property values will go down right now. They’ve been going up like you forget people, forget that in 2008 it was really tough to sell properties.
Property values are going down each month and, that went from 08, 09, 10, 11, 12 up into maybe even 13 where things were a lot different than it is today. Remember, all these things are cyclical and that will prepare for the worst, but prepare for the best, but be prepared for the worst as well.
So call to action guys, if you guys want to learn more about this, we’ll stick it in the infoPage at simplepassacastle.com/AHP. We’ve got several other webinars we’ve done on this in the past. And if you’re interested in getting involved in that pre REO thing, us go to simplepassivecashflow.com/preREO and drop a comment into our Facebook group.
I’d be curious. I’d like to find somebody who’s doing and not just, staying to themselves and keeping it to themselves. I’m interested in this type of stuff.
There’s Hawaii on there there’s opportunities in your backyard probably, or maybe your parents backyard.
It’s astounding how many especially when we get the hundreds and the thousand next month, I think they’re going to be all over us. There should be opportunities in the majority of the markets.
But all right, guys. Thanks for joining us. Thank you, George. And we’ll see everybody next time.