Hey simple, passive cash flow listeners. We are taking a break from the regular hard investing tax, legal podcasts, topic matter and talking a little bit about something that enriches all your guys’ souls out there. Something that I’ve been attuned to since starting the podcast actually, and getting into a lot of personal development is this aspect of play in your life.
You can’t pedal to the metal balls to the wall, type A personality all the time. If not, you’ll burnout and you have to infuse play into your day.
Today we have Mike Montague from playful humans.com. Going to be talking about how we can infuse this into our life without getting too crazy here but thanks for jumping on Mike.
Yeah. It’s so great to be here and I’m glad you said without getting too crazy, because there are some people in the play space. I’m not going to know any names, but they like the crazy bow ties and like the gags. And there are, they’re wearing balloons on their head or whatever, and they go a little too nuts.
That’s not me personally. I feel like I relate to your audience. A lot, because I’m a professional, I’m a professional sales trainer. I try to take myself seriously. And how I got here was I was trying to do the Tim Ferriss thing and just over optimize and measure and be super productive and watch my time management and analyze everything and collect that.
And I just found that it didn’t work for me. It works to a certain extent, but like you said, it’s really easy to get burned out and go, wait, why am I doing all this? Why am I trying to come up with all of this extra cash flow? What am I using it for? Am I just putting another comma in the bank account?
Or am I going to spend it someday? Yeah, what am I doing it all for? And that’s really what, where I landed on play from an adult rational perspective. Like I’m not telling you to quit your job and go be a hippie. And, to, or the Western United States on a motorcycle or something like, I want you to be productive.
And I found that play actually does. But all of the research shows that people that play that are happier, they’re more engaged with their life perform better. They make more money, they lose weight, they have more sex. Like it’s ridiculous. All the positive benefits of it. Yeah. Thanks for saying that. I’m glad to hear that because there are a lot of botch podcasts that I do as they look for this more, the minority of the podcasts are these more alternative topic matters, I think would enrich other, high-performing high net worth investors out there, and I’ve had really bad ones for they’re like all these woo stuff.
Yeah. And personally, I think a lot of this resonates with a lot of my investors. Like I’m more of a realist. I believe in personal development, but I’m not going to look at myself in the mirror and tell myself like a bunch of botches. Repeat it. Good enough. Yeah. Damn. And people like me, I don’t do that type of stuff.
I’m not saying it doesn’t work. Just doesn’t work for me. I don’t believe in fairytales, Easter buddies and stuff like that. But going back to your origin. Were you always naturally able to put in this play aspect or was it, what were your early career days, your personal. That’s a great question. I think I have always been in this playful persona so when I was in school, I happened to be really gifted at computers.
I was designing websites in high school, which isn’t very impressive now, but in the late nineties, there weren’t that many people that could do it. I made a lot of money. I had a lot of fun designing websites, but I was like, I don’t want to be a nerd. Like I don’t want to sit in a room by myself behind a computer all day.
Like I want to be cool. I want to be a DJ and be on the radio and stuff. And I have more play in my life. So after college, I did my own radio station, on the top 40 station in Kansas city here, I was Romeo on mix 93.3. And had a blast with that, but I found a couple of things happened.
Number one. Sitting in a room by yourself, by a computer all day. You tell a funny joke and nobody’s there to laugh. They’re listening in their car, their home office somewhere else. And also it pays a quarter of what computer programmers make. And so I was having a lot of fun.
I wasn’t feeling successful because I didn’t feel like I was growing or being a professional or getting the intellectual side of things.
And so I switched and I went in the opposite direction. I became a sales trainer. My dad works for a Sandler training as well, but I work for the international team now and I do sales training for companies like Uber and Thermo Fisher scientific and all kinds of large corporations and make really great money.
And I still get to do my entertainment thing. Get on a microphone. Whenever you’re doing stuff for other people, it starts wearing on you. You have to perform and work inside of that culture. And I’m not having as much fun. I was overworking, working long hours and also building a lot of stuff there.
I wrote a book and just overcharged that way. So about three years ago, I decided to reset and I was like, you know what? I need to find a foot in both worlds. I want to be a professional corporate speaker that also does entertainment and empowers people to find play. I found, at least for me in my life, when I balanced the creativity, the unknown and the the playfulness of life with the data science and the certainty and the hard work and, saving money and stuff that’s really when I’m fully engaged, that’s when I’m living my best life as I have one foot in both worlds.
Like I said, I’m not going to go. Crazy. Just, full of hippie playfulness, live on a commune and dance and sing all day. That’s not my thing, but I also can’t go full on programming data, measuring this, checking my Fitbit and doing a Pomodoros every hour . Were some mistakes that people normally make. If I really feel like I’m going to teach playfulness, I can’t do it like the seven steps to playfulness. Here’s what you do to check off the list because play and fun is something that is a little bit more spontaneous than that.
It needs some ruined space in your life. So what I like to tell people if you were already a genius at play. And in your life, you have had genius levels of creativity. You just lost it about the time you hit puberty and people started caring about other people’s opinions and you had to do things to be productive and teachers at school beat it out of.
Yeah. Fun looks like for you, and it’s different for everybody. I have a quiz on the website. If you want to go check that out, it’s a good place to start. Playful humans.com/quiz. There’s 10 different playful personality types. You might be an athlete. You might be a creator. You might like board games or video games, or you might like exploring and hiking, or you might.
Solving puzzles. There’s lots of different things. There’s even a playful personality type where you like producing parties and putting on events for other people. So producing things like this podcast and stuff is fun, but I don’t think you need to overthink it. And I don’t think you need to analyze it.
What I found was with most driven type A personality people it’s they need to put it on their schedule and they need to see that it’s that important. That if you don’t take an hour to play a day, you’re going to be less productive the next day that you’re going to burn out. It’s unsustainable. It’s like sleep and nutrition and everything else.
We look at play as one of those four things you need at least on a regular basis. If not every single day. I try to do all four of these everyday, but at least every week, I need to spend some time playing. I need to spend some time performing, using my abilities to produce to the best of my ability.
I need to hit pause a few times. So I do like mindfulness and meditation. I don’t think it’s the only answer, but you have to pause and rest and sleep. The other one, people miss a lot though is practice. You need to take some time to learn and get better at what you do in order to perform better the next day.
Professional athletes don’t just go play, live football games every single day. They spend some time practicing. And then on Sundays they perform at their best. And I think if we, as driven professionals, think about those things, we put play, practice, pause, and performance into our days. It really creates a sustainable level of energy in our life.
I think you’ve mentioned one thing. In the beginning of that, where you said it’s like people get to puberty and they start to feel that they’re being judged by other people. I think to me, that is what blocks most people from even doing any of this stuff in the first place. So again, I would just say, screw other people, stop worrying.
What other people think because gracious, you guys aren’t children anymore. You guys are adults out there. You think about old people, right? One thing you hear, like a lot of old people say is stop caring what other people think about you and just actually start living. Now, maybe people would get upset with me cause everybody gets offended these days.
But if you’re in your thirties, forties, fifties, you’re probably still worrying what people are thinking about you. And I’m just telling people to begin with the end in mind, just like cashflow, right? Create your cash flow streams today. Instead of doing the appreciation, accumulate theory at the end, in 30, 40 years, not going to care about Jack or what these people are thinking about you.
And if you’re, if you have a lot of cash flow, you’re gonna have a lot of options. You’re probably gonna lose these people behind. Anyway, it’s all the same. I don’t really talk to anybody I used to have a vehicle worker with these days. Heavens no. If you’re not on the path to financial freedom, you don’t work out.
We’re probably not going to hang out. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. I think you got to find your tribe, right? Find people that do value those things. And the same thing goes with play, right? Maybe your spouse or the people that you hang out with don’t like doing karaoke or they don’t like running and playing sports outside or whatever.
We’ll find people that do. There are enough humans out there that you can find somebody that does geek out on the same thing that you geek out. I love it. Everything that you said you’re right. Kids don’t have a filter. They don’t care about the last people, anything authentically themselves at five years old.
And I love what you said about older people too. Run out of blanks to give, I don’t know if you curse on this podcast or not, they don’t care anymore. They’re like I don’t have any to give. I don’t care what you think I’m doing my thing. And I don’t think again, that means you have to go full on crazy.
What that means to me is I need to carve out some time in my day to do something that I love, because even when you’re saving all this extra cash flow or you’re planning for retirement, you might not make it to retirement. If you’re saving all of your recreation for the last 20 years of your life, you might not have the physical ability to enjoy it.
Or you might not even make it there. So how can we spread that into our whole life so that we’re taking out some time and it doesn’t have to be a ton, but an hour a day to build a Lego or, do a drawing there’s adult coloring books and adult Lego kits and great puzzles or online games or any sort of activity, go ride a bike or play a sport, or find something fun to do.
That’s just going to recharge this just for you that it’s not for anybody also who cares what they think. They don’t even need to see it. Before I left Seattle, I was working at a day job. We would go and play Frisbee every Tuesdays and Thursdays for an hour, which ended up being an hour after lunch.
And I’ll be honest, those couple of years. That was probably the only thing I remember about daily life. That’s the best part of it, right? Yeah. And, but it was important because we planned it. It was on the schedule every Tuesday and Thursdays. What are some other ideas or things that people do, does it have to be a hobby?
How can you schedule? What about some smaller ideas from micro play sessions? Yeah, I think that’s true too. A lot of people don’t know that over 60% of CEOs take play breaks during their day, they might be playing a video game on their phone or listening to music that they like, like they just need to step away and tune out and it recharges your creative energy and stuff too.
So it doesn’t have to be complicated. I love what you said. I think those are great tips. If you join a bowling league or a sports league of whatever you want to play, a dark night or something with your friends, all of that is going to hold you accountable to actually doing it. And you can block out that time easily.
If you don’t have that time. I think it’s about finding those micro moments for yourself. I think you want to give yourself probably at least 20 minutes to decompress and step away from what you’re doing, just to get your brain into that right mindset. But I would say up to an hour. Find out whatever that thing is for you.
If you love to make things with your hand, take a woodcarving class or look at videos online, or if you like to, use your brain to solve puzzles, go do escape rooms, or find interesting Sudoku puzzles online or whatever it happens to be. It doesn’t need to be. Crazy fun, like new year’s Eve level fun.
That’s not play. It’s just an engaging challenge where you’re using your whole mind, your whole body, you get into that flow state and you’re doing it just for you because you chose to not because anybody else told you, you had to, or you’re getting paid to do. I think that’s the key, right?
The concentration factor is off. Like it’s not something for productivity, like editing podcasts or maybe sudoku puzzles falls in that category that you could do it as play, but it may not be like a CrossFit workout. Because it’s very focused. I don’t know if you enjoy it and you’re choosing to do it right.
But if you’re doing CrossFit. Your spouse told you needed to lose weight or because you feel like you have to or something, or you’re getting paid to teach the class. That’s different because it’s the external, because it’s on the board and dammit, you have to do it.
Play is specifically freely chosen. And that’s what makes it fulfilling to you because we need moments in our day. We all have obligations. You mentioned, changing diapers, we’ve got to pay taxes, we’ve got to hit the bills. We’ve got to do all kinds of stuff for client work and other things.
But I think that’s part of it. The beauty part of passive cash flow, right? If it gives you that time back don’t waste it, don’t waste it watching Netflix and not engaging in tuning out of your life, do something that you’re going to remember, make a memory, do something that you choose. So that’s my big one too, about television.
It’s not that watching NFL football doesn’t matter. They’re playing. You’re not, you’re watching passively, right? If you go play football, throw the ball around with your friends that counts. Now you’re engaged in your life and you’re connecting with other people in your environment. Another idea I had is like podcasts, right?
People will listen to podcasts, not for pleasure, but for content and focus and a side note. Guys, if you guys are listening to the civil facet Castro, any podcasts for more than a year, Stop listening, please just join our community. Like this is just a marketing thing to get you to sign up for our community.
I’ll be honest, right? It’s the same old stuff over and over again in Mark, in podcast land, you don’t get, we don’t get nearly into the good stuff. It’s the juicy stuff. That’s all behind closed doors. And I like it, and I say that because it’s going to do something fun. Stop, like trying to fill your head with a bunch of the same old garbage over and over again.
Like when was the last time you listened to a song? Talking to the very minority of people out there. That’s oh, I’m not gonna listen to the radio because they said no, listen to the radio. You’re supposed to be in your automobile university. It’s just to listen to podcasts, filling your head with good stuff.
Yep. I’m that way. I’m definitely that way. I listen to podcasts when I run. And when I look at it, I love learning. But it does. At some point it’s become a job and it’s oh, I’m subscribed to these five podcasts. I have to listen to it by Friday. Or I feel like I’m not caught up. I didn’t get my thing in and podcasts keep getting longer and stuff and things.
So I’ve already shouted out Tim Ferriss, clearly I’m a fan, like a three hour show from him and Joe Rogan, that’s six hours of your life where you’re not engaged in doing it. I don’t really listen to podcasts these days.
If you’re consuming media and you’re doomed to scrolling on your phone, maybe both at the same time, you’re passively living your life. And we want it the other way. We want passive income and we want to be fully engaged, actively in and enjoying it. Boring investments, but fun life.
Consciously choosing. I love that. Any other like quick tips or ideas to consciously infuse the play into your daily life for a weekly basis? Man, I think it really is about the choice that you said. I think people know how to do it, but if you need a role model, look at kids. When you look at a five-year-old or a ten-year-old, they know how to play, they have genius levels of creativity.
They will inspire you. You just got to go in and join the fund at that point. And then from there, I think you have to think about when you lost that play and why you lost. We all think that kids should go outside and play more, that they need to get more exercise. The NFL has a play 60 campaign and encourages kids to play outside for 60 minutes.
At what age is that? Not a good idea. Just because you graduate college, you shouldn’t move your body for 60 minutes a day anymore. You shouldn’t enjoy your life. You shouldn’t play with your friends or go outside. No, that’s your whole life at 20, at 30, at 40, at 50. At 80 or a hundred, it’s still probably important for you to get up an hour a day and play right.
Move your body, engage your mind to stave off Alzheimer’s and it builds muscle builds, creativity and brain connections. This is something that is vital to human success and survival. We just. Got distracted by other things in capitalism along the way. And there’s nothing wrong with it. It just shouldn’t be the only thing I don’t believe in here.
Yeah, once you get your contact information out there, as people want to check out the quiz, You bet the firstname.lastname@example.org/quiz. It’s playful humans on all the social media channels. And that’s the name of the podcast as well. Since you’re a podcast listener, go check it out again.
Lane said, you don’t have to listen to all of them. Don’t make it a job, but go find something that’s fun for you. For me. It’s interviewing people and getting to know cool people on how they did it. Like famous magicians in America’s got talent or mind readers or people that do like sword swallowing and juggling and all kinds of crazy different things.
Like how do they make a career out of that? They’re making six figures, loving their life, traveling the world and having fun. And they’re just juggling or telling jokes for a living. That, to me, is really interesting and how they’re doing that. So that’s what I dive into. Thanks guys for listening. You got a little bit different, but again, I think the action item for everybody is go out and schedule fun.
Maybe hopefully every day, but just micro sessions here. They’re figuring out what that is for you. And the, probably what you guys are gonna run into is, your peer group is a bunch of boring people that want to still fit in the box. But look, life’s short guys, get out there and. That’s like you’re going to die tomorrow in a way.
Invest for the long-term of course, probably gonna live a long time. Be those deals, infinite bank policies. Get life insurance too. If you’re maybe your peer group, you need to change your peer group up. If they’re not people who want to live the kind of life that you are, get some new friends.
I’ve got a joke in there. No, I think you’re going to be surprised that your friends are needed as much as you do that. If you ask them to go throw the ball in the park or go to karaoke night or an escape room or something, do a game show or play a board game night, they love it.
We’ve all been cooped up, man. We all need to get out of the house and play. So if they don’t you’re right. Yeah. You have a problem. If people discourage that. Man more often than not. They’re just going to be happy that you invited them. Yeah. Just tell them you’re like a therapist told you to do it, and if they laugh at you think get rid of one, not a joke in there, but half serious.
But thanks guys. We’ll see you guys next time.